Hey Guy's,
I just bought a 65 Dart convertible fixer upper. I need a lot of advice. I need to know the basics. What type of oil and tranny fluid should I be using? [/list]

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Ken

65 Dart Convertible Super Sixed

There might be a fire storm on this one but, I would use mobile 5000 5w30 and if the oil pressure is not good then go with a heaver oil.

As for the trans fluid I have no idea.

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85 d-100 HEI 2BBl
06 Toyota Corrola

I did a bunch of research on this before DD built my most recent motor. It seems to me that a lot of oil claims are marketing.

Having driven at least a couple million miles since I started driving in 1976, and having worked on a bunch of motors, it seems to me that I can't recall a single failure that was related to oil TYPE.

Whenever I have heard about (or seen) failures, they were due to the oil being VERY dirty and full of sludge, or to the engine not having any oil.

What I've done for the last 10 years is simple. I used a good name brand synthetic oil in every vehicle that I own. If the weather is hot, and/or the engine likes to burn oil, then I go with a thicker one. If the weather is cold, then I go with a thinner one.

I change them every 6000 miles or so, or when the oil starts to look too dirty.

I know this isn't scientific, but it seems that the oil debate is a large rabbit hole. I see the same sorts of debates on my gun board that I frequent. All you have to do to start a flame war is ask someone "which is better, 1911 or Glock?"

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1963 Dodge Dart, motor by Doug Dutra, Offenhauser two carb intake, Pertronix, Clifford 6x2, Flowmaster 40's, Erson RV15/295 RDP, head work. Addco anti-sway bar, urethane suspension bushings, KYB's, racing leafs, SSBC discs. Need ZDDP? Get STP.

6000 mile oil change intervals are a bit long unless you're using a synthetic. Even so, it wouldn't hurt to do a Used Oil Analysis to be sure. The normal recommended OCI was 4000 miles in 1965 and 2000 miles for severe service (see Chrysler Oil Recommendations). The transmission (manual & automatic) OCI was 32,000 miles in light & medium duty service and 10,000 miles in heavy duty service.

You should be safe to use any HDEO in your crankcase. Dexron II was specified for automatic transmissions but is now obsolete. You could use either Dexron III or ATF+3 (see Allpar Torqueflite). See also Favorite Oil Filters.

Agreed - the 6000 miles was because almost all my trips were longer (to work). Anything other than straight highway, it makes sense to change it more often.

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1963 Dodge Dart, motor by Doug Dutra, Offenhauser two carb intake, Pertronix, Clifford 6x2, Flowmaster 40's, Erson RV15/295 RDP, head work. Addco anti-sway bar, urethane suspension bushings, KYB's, racing leafs, SSBC discs. Need ZDDP? Get STP.

Not for sure if the question got answered yet. We don't know if the fixer-upper is a runner in need of a tune or an oil burner or has a tank full of bad gas, hasn't been started for who knows how long.

I'd say if it hasn't been run for awhile...dump the oil and get some decent dino 10w30 and a good filter. Do it before you even start it. Get the Dart tuned and valves adjusted. Make sure it runs fine and then lets start talking about what oil to use for the long haul. Trans is the same, make sure it shifts before flushing and new filter. Top it off if it is low with Dexron III. Later
Ryan

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10.74 @ 127.47 mph 1320 ft
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Good advice Ryan,
I bought the car after it had been sitting for over a year. The owner claimed the he started it once a month or so. Since I made the post, I drained the oil, took off the valve cover, and saw that it had some build up. My plan is to put in 4 new quarts of oil and a quart of tranny fluid to flush it all out. I know that I have to pull the pan and clean the oil pump screen after the flush.
The car has old gas but it does run on it. I plan on draining the tank and putting in some fresh fuel within the next few days.
I just bought an electronic ignition module, new plugs, cap, and wires that should help. During all of this, I'll do a compression test to determine if I need to do a total rebuild.
What started out as small project car has mushroomed. I just finished with the brakes and did a series of pressure washes under, over, and in between the car. Thanks for all the advice on this site.

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Ken

65 Dart Convertible Super Sixed

I've never used tranny fluid to flush a motor, but I hear that it works. What I used to use was "Berryman B12 Chemtool." It comes as a liquid that you can just put in the oil. Don't add it to a hot motor, or it will vaporize and make the engine hard to start (gets sucked into carb via PCV valve). I would add it to a cold motor and drive very conservatively for 20 to 30 minutes at lower speeds/loads, then drain the oil.

I also used to add it to the gas tank on longer trips to clean out everything.

My thinking these days is that the newer oils have enough detergent that they will clean the motor anyways after a few oil changes, and that there's no incremental value in having the inside of the motor super clean, as long as the oil that is *circulating* is actually clean.

I also have the same thinking on putting it in the gas tank - gas these days appears to have a lot of additives that are supposed to clean things - and if I really wanted to clean the carb throat and combustion chamber, I could just squirt some carb cleaner in the carb.

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1963 Dodge Dart, motor by Doug Dutra, Offenhauser two carb intake, Pertronix, Clifford 6x2, Flowmaster 40's, Erson RV15/295 RDP, head work. Addco anti-sway bar, urethane suspension bushings, KYB's, racing leafs, SSBC discs. Need ZDDP? Get STP.

It depends on where the deposits are. If the rings are carboned up and sticking then compression will be down and oil consumption will be up.

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Joshua

When I used to work at the Bellingham Wrecking yard I saved several old 62 -66 Valiants and Darts with SL6's during the time I worked there. We used to reclaim all the oils before crushing the old cars. When we had a nice straight car with a running SL6 come in I would buy it for $50. I would dump about half the motor oil and fill it up with the used xmission fluid that we had reclaimed. I would let it idle 3 or 4 hours while working in the yard keeping my eye on it and listening to it. The cars generally were from old folks that passed on and were driven short distances at slow speeds and never really warming up. Pulling the valve cover, they would look horrible. After running several hours at an idle the rings would begin to loosen up and the smoking would subside. After several filter changes and oil changes these cars would run great for many more years. Some key points when doing this is don't drive it until it's flushed. The pick up screen can clog and so can the oil filter. You need to have a few new filters handy and keep draining the oil so the pickup clears. If your going to drive it, use Rislone, it's gentler than tranny fluid. Driving during a flush can plug the pickup and starve the engine and damage bearings under the load of driving.

If your patient you can bring the engine back and turn it into a descent runner that doesn't use any oil. In many of these old cars I would just run a good 10-30 weight oil and change the filter often (500 to 1000 miles until it cleans up). On some I later switched to synthetic oil (Amsoil) which will continue to help clean the internals and keep the rings sealing.

I am currently running an old barn find while my good engine is being upgraded. The barn find is a stock 79 SL6 that had been sitting for many years covered in a pile of hay. I bought it for $150 and installed it in my car. It looked horrible outside and worse inside. On the outside it had many broken studs, rust etc........no distributor or fuel pump and the pan was full of black goo like tar. The rocker arms looked like it was covered in barnacles. After doing the flush and 9 oil changes using Shell Rotella, I moved on to running 0-30 Mobile 1. The gunk on the rocker arms has melted and is fairly clean and the engine has 140+ pounds compression in each cylinder, it doesn't use any oil and the valve train is very quiet set at stock specs. So be patient with the flush and take your time.

One summer I saved six cars from the crusher that went on to live much longer lives.

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

WOW Ted,

What a cool story and will take your advice. I run Mobile 1 in my wifes Lexus RX and Dello 400 in my Dodge Ram diesel and change the oil at 3000 mi. I am used to having clean engines. I have lots of odd brand quarts of oil from past oil changes on my kids cars that I was planning on using them until I get the oil clean.

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Ken

65 Dart Convertible Super Sixed

Great story Ted. However, I don't think it's a good idea to use ATF (or diesel fuel or kerosene) to flush the sludge out of an engine. ATF doesn't have the detergents or antiwear additives of engine oil so there is possibility this type of flush could do some harm. However, if you're saving a car from the crusher, this is a lot better than doing nothing especially if the ATF were free. See ATF as an engine flush.

My understanding is that ATF has the viscosity of SAE 20 so I think it's the low viscosity of the ATF rather than its solvency that is doing the cleaning. The best type of flush is a slow-acting one and Auto-Rx seemed to be quite popular on BITOG. Widman just uses HDEO for cleaning sludged-up engines but I suppose an oil like Pennzoil Platinum or Ultra (also popular on BITOG) would work too.

Frank,

I know it's not as gentle as Rislone, Marvel Mystery oil or synthetics but we had several 55 gallon drums full of old xmission fluid and it was free. Some of it was pretty old and dark brown. Some of these old motors had oil that looked like tar and needed a little thinning. I would go about 50/50 on the mix. What ever oil it had in it plus two quarts of old reclaimed xmission fluid. It worked in a pinch since I was poor college student. As long as I didn't put a load on the motor, like revving it up in neutral or driving it, the rings would free up and start sealing again after a few hours of idling. I never used diesel or kerosene.......that sounds a little too harsh!

Thanks for the links on the products......

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

I didn't mean to imply that you used diesel or kerosene. I know many people like to use diesel or kerosene for flushing so I thought I would mention them too while I was at it. I think it's great that you were able to keep those cars out of the crusher by freeing up the rings.

Exactly my story, except the oil change interval is 7000 miles for me unless it looks dirty. Been using synthetic since 1980 and have no regrets. Also, filter change with Wix or Napa Gold only. Friends don't let friends use Fram!

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If it was easy, everybody would be doing it.