I have been to the other side seeking knowledge--- perhaps found some, but, it may need a tweak or two.

Firstly, one goal is to better organize the rat’s nest slowly developing under hood as relay assisted circuits have been installed. Better planning should have been employed at the time with an eye to future expansion of the relay program, but it wasn’t.

A decision has been made to relocate lighting relay bank presently adjacent to alternator, to driver’s side inner fender shortening its trigger circuit, and utilizing larger passage way to front of radiator for larger conductors. Presently headlight bundle penetrates front bulkhead just left of horn relay where air conditioning plumbing would be run; it’s tight and unsightly.

Additionally there is a third relay powering electric choke, and o2 sensor ganged to the first two. Each circuit has its separate trigger ground tethered to the alternator’s case along with ignition device grounding loop. Picture Madusa…

Second goal is to run a new larger 8 gage conductor, alternator to starter relay’s ¼â€￾ lug, bypassing amp gage to eliminate any voltage drop. I realize that this will shunt amp gage so it will no longer register correctly charging events.

Third goal is to establish convenient means to power a relay bank with some sort of power distribution lug feed from starter relay’s ¼â€￾ lug. Also, a similar configuration to ground all relays, and ignition device loop to battery’s negative terminal.

Lastly, to power ignition circuit with relay, and voltage regulator reading remote voltage source from, perhaps, new power distribution lug. I’m not clear just how to redesign ignition circuit to accomplish this goal at the moment. Help with this would be appreciated.

Mad Electrical’s illustration showing alternator to battery bypass [url=http://madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges2.shtml]here[/url]. I don’t agree with the parallel conductors feeding dash circuits as illustrated, and over current protection method may need to be rethought. Also providing no disconnect means between under hood and dash harnesses is not attractive to me. With relay powered headlights, the only constant big draw device would be heater fan, and two low duty cycle high power demand devices are convertible top pump, and cigar lighter on my car. This being the case, retaining freshly rebuilt bulkhead connections would be adequate to handle this reduced load, and pass through conductors not needed allowing preservation of harness disconnect means.

Mad’s theory of remote voltage reading to eliminate the multi sources for voltage drop in Chrysler’s ignition circuit which can be found. [url=http://madelectrical.com/electricaltech/remotevoltagesensing.shtml] here[/url] has some merit. Your thoughts using this modification are appreciated.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Remote sensing sounds interesting; but I'd want to make sure the battery charges properly most of all! But more importantly, since you're not trying to save 10 cents per car, times several hundred thousand per year, means you can easily use a good thick wire for anything carrying power. Which then means voltage drops become much lower.

Something I noticed: soldering crimp connections. Tempting. I've gotten into (and observed) discussions about this. If it was me I'd go read up again on it. There's a reason why they are crimped in the first place, not soldered. Off the top of my head, one reason not to solder a properly crimped connector in the first place is because solder tends to wick down the wire, causing the wire to stiffen up beyond the crimp point. And creating a spot where flex can break the wire.

Make sure to put in wire supports, in particular near to any connection points.

IMO, there's not much to be gained by listening to the Chevyheads at MAD electrical babble about how they think it's best to fix various shortcomings on their GM vehicles and yammer, largely in ignorance, about Mopars. From what I can see, many of their "solutions" are halfaѕѕed or otherwise less than thoughtful. Their thing about "remote sensing" for the voltage regulator appears to be aimed at cleaning up a poor decision on GM's part. Either that or it's a very long-winded sales pitch for that junction post they offer. Want to bring the voltage regulator electrically closer to the alternator? Easy, put the alternator field circuit on a relay. Chrysler called this a "Field Loads Relay" and installed it in heavy-duty charging systems. I think you're running a '70-up regulator on your car, aren't you? Either way, find the wire that presently feeds line voltage to the voltage regulator when you turn on the key. Cut it. If you've got the '70-up system, cut it upstream of the splice that also sends line voltage directly to one of the alternator's field terminals when the key is on. Upstream end goes to terminal #86 of a relay. The regulator/field end goes to terminal #87. The #85 terminal gets grounded. The #30 terminal goes to battery + (via an appropriate fuse of about 5A to 10A, depending on alternator spec). This way, turning on the ignition shows the regulator the actual battery voltage, not line voltage after dropping through firewall connectors and ignition switch.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I agree Dan, this is why I am contemplating some of these changes. As I said; I don’t like feeding a load with parallel conductors, it is a poor, no, bad wiring method for low voltage direct current applications.
That conductor from alternator to bulkhead conductor is the last place that would significantly contribute to a voltage drop until it got to be over thirty feet long, than all one has to do is go up a wire size or two to correct the problem, compared to all the other antiquated connections contained in the charging circuit.
Presently I have reinstalled the old stile ’67 mechanical regulator, as the spiffy electronic replacement device I had, you may recall, started spiking the system intermittently and I deap sixed it. I am running a duel field alternator of unknown amperage, with one field grounded to block.

Dan, left side is present circuit, right proposed relay alteration. Is this what you were directing me to do?

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Yep, exactly.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Good, thanks, Dan. I think this modification will further stabilize voltage levels.

I’m not an EE, so I’m struggling to understand the two factions regarding powering devices, and voltage regulation.

On one hand Ron Francis’s tip #43 recommends not to power devices and use conductor from alternator power lug to battery for voltage regulation. As “it will cause alternator to sense a bad read… bla, bla, bla, and cause mysterious things to happen. Do not attach power-drawing devices to this wire at any end.â€￾

On the other hand, your pals at MAD see no problem with the above argument, and recommend running power conductor from alternator to starter relay lug, and tapping from that point to power devices, and connect voltage regulation at a node where several devices draw their power.

I know you have posted that it’s A-OK to power off of the power lug. I have been doing it, and to some degree Chrysler did as well. Electrically I don’t see any difference from battery + terminal, threaded lug on starter relay, and power lug on alternator to power anything if one were to run a branch circuit from starter relay to power a bank of relays in conjunction with existing conductor connecting to amp meter.

So what is the deal here? Or did I just answer my own question knowing Chrysler more or less used the “on the other handâ€￾ method…

Now to clean up Medusa.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

I don't think much of Ron Francis' advice or products, either. Like MAD, he's full of poo (but also like MAD, occasionally one finds bits of useful, quality information in among the poo).

There is absolutely nothing wrong with running a good, fat conductor from alternator B+ to battery +. It'll stop your ammeter working, and you must adequately physically protect the cable since it will always be (very) live.

As you work to improve your wiring, you may want to read here and links therefrom.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Yup, selecting appropriate over current protection for motors is a little bit analytical, and a little black magic. I’ll revisit my electric code for a few tips, as my car has a hydraulic pump driven top that I believe has a 30 amp automatic resetting circuit breaker, and a future radiator fan. Heater fan is not such a big deal.

The page covering fusible link sizing, and fuses is helpful.

Dan: Yeah, poo can grow some good stuff.
Any tips on determining the rating on my alternator?

Yes, I know amp gage will become a bookend.

Bill

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Keep us in the loop on this Bill. I am interested in what you end up with. I dealt with the wires under the hood of my car by simply covering them with a removable panel. It would be nice to do something more elegant some day. Let us know particularly what fuse block or hardware you end up with. My fuse blocks are just the cheap things you get from Advance or Pep Boys. However I do not think I want to, or need to spend $500 for a wiring kit from Ron Francis or Painless.

Sam

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86 Miser 170,000+
2 1/4" exhaust
Holley 1920 #55
HEI MSD BLaster 2
17.8 mpg

Xjarhead,
Thanks for the list of sites.

This is what I am using for a fuse block from a local marine supply company.

It has six negative screw terminals, and six fused plus terminals, all covered, and enough circuits to feed what I plan to do. Relays are separate from fuse block, located in several areas of engine compartment. The block is located on inner fender between fender tag & front of car next to battery.

I’ll post photos as soon as a few connectors needed, and back ordered vinyl wire wrap from year one show up.

Sam: There is nothing painless about a 500 buck hand full of wire. That is why I just cobble up my own mess. A few years ago I did order a few odd colored conductors with stud connectors such as temperature sending unit requires from Evens that I can’t reproduce. Perhaps I shall order the parking light conductors with the correct offset plugs to finish the project, as those conductors suffer from brittle insulation sporting one or two cracks.

Bill

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Check out these guys for harness tape. http://www.tapebrothers.com/Dry-Vinyl-Tapes-s/282.htm.
Only 7.20 for 250ft of 2" tape.

Dave

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86 Miser 170,000+
2 1/4" exhaust
Holley 1920 #55
HEI MSD BLaster 2
17.8 mpg

Bill, That looks like a nice piece. One thing that I found just a little confusing: The page states this is a 6 circuit fuse box, but you can count 12fuses behind the cover. Which one do you have? Is it indeed a six fuse box, and does it have 6 fuses, or 12.

Also, can you supply dimensions of the part you used please.

Sam

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