I am going to inject my 225 engine. It has now 2bbl carb, Dutra's, MP268 cam and 10:1 compression. The engine is installed to lightweight Dart with 904 and 3.55 gears.

I like to see Megasquirt fuel maps you have used with your similar engines. As I am making my own injection control system (hw) it would help me a lot if I can start with something which is close to ideal.

My injection will be sequential and the "fueling hardware" is here:

Looks really nice!

I am travelling (away from my Megasquirt laptop), but will try to post a screen shot when I get back in a week or so.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

Much depends upon your injector size, and the Req-fuel figure you use. No single map will work for all applications. But the relationship between the cells should be similar, and a good place to start. That is, if you have a figure of x in the 30kpa/900rpm cell, and that works well at idle, then the relationship for 50/1500 will be similar to the relationship between those two cells in Lou's map. Lou has pretty big injectors in his slant, as do I, so our req-fuel and map will likely look quite different, but the ratios should look the same.

The trick is to get it started and running well enough to get it warmed up, so you can tune the idle well. Then work from there. Do you have a wide band O2 sensor? You can tune with the narrow band, but not as easily or as accurately. The wide band are a big help in tuning. With one you can tune for precise AF ratio, and get pretty close to an ideal fuel mixture everywhere. Then you can tune the warm up mixtures, and the acceleration and decel mixtures. In time it will be starting and running as well as an OEM application.

I am short on high-tech myself, and this project has been a real learning experience for me. You have a very good start there. Keep asking questions and we will do our best to help you get where you wish to go. Plan to spend a lot of time tinkering with the tuning figures.

What engine management system (ECU) are you using? What injector size are those? It looks like a cable throttle set up needs to be fabricated. There are many, many factory applications that work from the side like that, so a trip to the junk yard might yield something useful.

I have never worked out the ratios of the fuel cells in my fuel map. I will do so, and post that here sometime soon for you. Until then, you have much to do. It is great to have you on board! Thanks for asking, and thanks in advance for your contributions to the EFI portion of the board.

A word of advice: Do not neglect to add the heater lines to and from that manifold. I did not add them and wish I had. Things are so cluttered on my engine now it is impossible to go back and add them without taking things apart considerably. The heated water flow helps keep a consistent manifold temp across varying ambient temp conditions.

OH yeah, can you show us a picture of your car? And if you feel comfortable with it, I, for one, would like to know your name.

Sam

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The "controller" what I am going to use is not going to be based to any commercial or open code ECU. Against it I have taken some electronics design to do things slightly different way. I will open the design later, after it has been installed and running that much I have been driving at least around my garage. It will take some time, long or short. I have no hurry.

Sure I hope I can do my 1st to test drive at next summer.

I have been running with a mixture of E85 and regular gas with a carburetor for a while. A BBD carb even with "enlarged" main jets will not get rich enough mixture to use only E85 so I have been blending these two flammable liquids together. I know that there is special carbs for E85. A 350cfm Holley would be usable, but because injection sounds better...

My narrow band lambda, which is installed just after the front Dutra manifold, shows apprx 80mV at the constant speed and the engine runs well. you can see I am running with lean mixture.The average consumption of the blend is apprx 10% higher than just gasoline engine was. I am using NGK plugs of "8" heat range, which is pointing to racing style plugs. They will not get sooth over them because the alcohol/fuel mix is that lean. I have few thousand E85 mix kilometers behind with no problems.

I am going to run open loop injection so the lambda will be a reference of manual tuning only.

At the moment this engine has now factory "super six" intake with the rear "modified from stock" exhaust. For future I have planned to heat the incoming air against heating the manifold. The main reason for that that is because Clifford does not have water passages for heating as well as no flange for connection to exhaust manifold. Anyway the heating issue will be happen earliest at 2nd step. Test trial will happen at midsummer.

I am starting with Bosch injectors which I have measured (all them) to flow 225-230cc/min @3bar pressure. Test flow has been measured with E85 so I have quite accurate knowledge of their performance in the real envinroment.

With alcohol these injectors will pass over 150hp which will be enough for me. I have almost stock head except O.S. valves.

I have measured choosen injectors with 2.5ms ... 18ms pulsing and I know how much percentage of flow error I get with short pulses. I have also tested them with different input voltages which causes also slight change to fuel flow as they open slower with low voltage. So basics are done - to develop my own controller.

I have studied basics of VE of engines with different manifold vacuum levels and rpm ranges. This is an issue which varieas a lot between engines. Thats why I am asking you slant sixers to open your MAPs to see what I should set as a start up level. My "unique" controller will have its own way to adjust timing of injection and the amount of injection will be mainly based to manifold pressure measurement. Depending of how much I see you have difference between low-mid-high rpms I will set there some rpm based compensation - or not.

I am also interested to study from your fuel maps some other issues like how short is the injector timing at high vacuum compared to full throttle. I am using Honeywell 26PC series pressure sensor for a manifold vacuum measurement - depending of the range it will cause some design modifications to my pressure preamplifier.

At our salvage yards the parts cars are not so often "made in U.S.A." so I have use other sources for parts. This is done and I have now almost all hardware collected (fuel pump, regulator etc). At the moment I am building some "home made" sensors to get information from the engine status. Yes I will do them, too. Next step is to weld a small volume tank for the engine compartment installed high pressure fuel pump. This tank will be located at the side of the radiator.



Yes. I have to think about the cold weather driveability. This shot is from last February at Helsinki city centre market place.

My christian name? Its Jari

Jari, Thanks for the lengthy reply. It sounds like your understanding of this goes way beyond mine. I hope to get some useful information in the next couple of days or so. I am eager to see how all this out. I am sure we can learn much from you.

Do you have a technical, or scientific background? What kind of mileage are you getting on e-85? Why are you using this mix and not straight gasoline? Do you recommend it for US use?

Sam

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I had an average of 18mpg when I had stockstyle MP244 cam. My driving is mostly stop and go at down town. Sure the mpg went a bit worser with MP268 cam but you cant get anything for free... The blend of E85 and our 95 octane (equals your 91 I assume) raised the consumption appr 10%. With 3.55 gears and non lockup 904 gears the highway driving is so terrible I have no fresh numbers for it. Let me quess it is now 15-16mpg.

Combo of slant six parts I have make me an engine which runs nice above 4000rpm. Negative point is that its a bit complicated drive economically because something under the hood says "pedal to the metal, now!"

We have locally "RE85" fuel. I quess "R" is coming from recycled or something. Its made from carbage from food industry, its cheap enough and then I can feel to do things a little bit more envinronment friendly. Or some other BS... RE85 is equivalent to more common E85 fuel.

Of course there is also a point that I said to someone that I can do such an "ECU" myself. Lets see how it goes. Be patient with my project reporting.

I am an engineer. My daily job goes with medical instrumentation like dental drills. Wash your teeths at least twice in a day. Otherwise you could get a painful test trial!

That sounds boring. I hope you got the bad English pun. Thanks for sharing. It is nice to say I "know" someone from Finland. At my age, this is the closest I get to social media.

Sam

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You're absolutely correct with your comment. Even its boring anyway I have to work to get more fuel. A-bodies of '60s are free. What are you doing wor your for your daily fuel?

Jari

Hi Jari, Here is my current fuel table. It is not the final product by any stretch. I should copy and post my AF ratio table for it to make sense. The cruise range of the map has been auto tuned fairly extensively up to 3500 RPM.

Keep in mind I have not driven the car hard yet, after 3 months of tuning. I suspect the boost areas of the map will get richer, but you are interested in the NA portions at this point.

Any critiques from members are welcome.




I would like to see other maps posted here. If I can do this, you can too.
Sam

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Sam,

I believe your boosted regions, especially above 3500 RPM, are too rich. This could very well be the cause of your sputtering at higher RPM.

Try leaning out everything in the upper 3-5 rows and rightmost 4-5 columns by 10-20 % and drive it again...

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

Thanks Lou. I wonder if you could post your fuel table for your 68. I will lean things out as suggested. And, there are outliers in the current table that need to be dealt with. This will all precede any changes in ignition set up.

Sam

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This table is the result of taking Lou's advice. It is interesting to compare this one with the earlier one. I worked for almost half an hour trying to get the table even and eliminate the dips and valleys. I also corrected the RPM designation for the X axis. For some reason there were two @ 3800 before. That was an oversight.

The higher numbers in the upper left hand corner are the start up cells, and that is why they are richer.

There are still a few outliers and anomalies in there. For the most part they are outside the normal driving range of the engine. It was too late to drive it, but will do that in a few days. Some auto tuning is in line next. Maybe a datalog as well. Thanks Lou.

I think my assumptions about the relationship of the VE numbers between the lower and higher RPMs has been flawed from the beginning. I assumed, (there is that word that gets us in trouble) that the higher RPMs needed higher numbers in proportion to their RPM ratio. I can see now this is wrong. At 3000 RPM the injectors are firing 3 times as fast as they are firing at 1000 RPM. That alone triples the fuel. So VE numbers do not need to rise anywhere near as much as the ratio of the RPM. I felt pretty dumb when I realized this.

It dawned on me when I looked at the datalog, and I saw that the pulse width did not change as much as the RPM and yet the AF ratio stayed the same. Higher MAP numbers do require higher VE numbers since the engine is not turning over faster, but the engine is getting more air while the injectors are not firing faster. Therefore greater pulse width is needed. I don't know if I should feel good for figuring that out, or dumb for not seeing this sooner. I now see I have more work to do on this map. I suspect the upper RPM VE numbers are all still to big.

Jari, I hope this is helping you out. Lou, I still would like to see your VE table.



Sam

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Still likely too much rise with RPM, but getting closer. I just emailed you my VE table. Please post here if you wish/can.

Cheers,

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

I will do it tonight. Thanks.
Sam

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Here is Lou's fuel table. You can see that the numbers do not advance as quickly moving to the right as mine do. I think when you compare his boost number to his idle number, it may actually be higher than mine compared to my idle number. However,to be objective and scientific, we would need to know what his and my Req-fuel number is in order to compare the two charts, and what AF ratio his idles at. I was able to idle at a much leaner ratio with MSII. Probably a more indicative comparison would be to compare 2000 RPM at 30 KPA to 2000RPM at 130 KPA on both charts.

I wish mine ran like his does. Maybe one day.




Sam

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