Hey All,
The next TWO problems that need fixing on Lorrie Van Haul's mighty 225 Slant Six Engine is the Fan Belt and Pulleys, and the Intake/Exhaust Manifold Gasket.

Lorrie Van Haul is a 1967 Dodge P200 Postal Van.

Her Engine was running today in preparation for adjusting her NEW Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor, and in the process, she proceeded to shred her Fan Belt into a thin coating of rubber dust which she deposited on the pavement between her front Wheels.

Upon closer inspection, it was ascertained that it MAY be that the Alternator Pulley groove is not aligned with the Damper and Cooling Fan Pulley Grooves.

Am going to remove the Radiator tomorrow morning to gain unfettered access to these units to see what is wrong with them that made them shred and shed Lorrie's V-Belt this morning.

The V-Belt that was on Lorrie this morning was a Premium Top Cord 401-7405 15405, made in Korea!

There are on hand here three Fan Belts. A Goodyear 13410, a DriveRite 44515, and a Gates XL 7410. They all are of a size similar to what was left of Lorrie's V-Belt, but I have not the slightest idea if these Belts will work and have even less idea what the numbers mean.

Have done a search, but none of the technical articles that were found have any reference to the 225 Slant Six Engine.

Would anyone here be able to shed some light on this subject?

Also, on the subject of the Intake/Exhaust Manifold Gaskets.

The other vehicle here is a 1964 Ford Galaxie 500, with a 390 FE P-Code (Police Interceptor) Engine. It has Cast Iron Shorty Headers, and they do not use Manifold Gaskets.

From what can be made out, there IS a thin Gasket between Lorrie's Intake/Exhaust Manifold and the Head of the Engine, but there are terrible leaks that can be felt puffing out from between the Manifolds and the Head.

While the Radiator is out tomorrow, it would probably be just as well to go ahead and replace the Manifold Gasket since access to the Front Nuts would be available.

There is a NAPA, an AutoZone, and an O'Reilly's Auto Part Stores in the next town East of here. Would have to get the Gasket from one of them.

Does anyone have a recommendation as to what should be asked for other than the Gasket must fit a 225 Slant Six Engine? Like maybe there is an "ideal" Gasket for this application?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

It is very much worth your while to get the good gaskets for the manifolds-to-head and intake-to-exhaust junctions.

As for the fan belt, disregard the numbers. What's important is quality (use a Gates, Goodyear, or Dayco item if you can) and correct size.

You also wrote, in another thread:
If your ammeter usually sits at "C/+", you've got problems. A dying battery, a faulty voltage regulator, messed-up wiring or something else. The ammeter should swing over to "C/+" immediately after you start the engine to replenish the electricity taken from the battery to operate the starter, then should hover near the central mark on the ammeter, leaning neither heavily towards "C/+" nor heavily towards "D/-".

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Hey Daniel,
Read the Thread referenced, but didn't see anything about the Manifolds-to-Head Gasket.

When the Manifolds that are presently on Lorrie were gotten, they were not taken apart at the "hot box". They were just installed as a single unit.

Wasn't planning on taking them apart this time either. Was planning on just moving them off the Studs and away from the heads and putting in a NEW Head to Manifolds Gasket. Is this a no-no?
Alright. Don't know exactly what size is correct, but will find out if any of the Belts on hand will work. One is a Gates, and one is a Goodyear. If neither one will work, will have to get one that will.

Is there any way to adjust the Alternator to make sure that its Pulley aligns with the Cooling Fan and Damper Pulleys?
May have given the wrong impression with what was written.

Upon starting, the Ammeter DOES go over to 30 Amps. But then it settles down to just above the Center.

Lorrie has a brand NEW Battery, NEW Alternator Regulator, and NEW Wiring.

Don't think anything is wrong, as what you described here:
Is EXACTLY what Lorrie's Ammeter does.

BUT, I didn't know that THAT was what it was SUPPOSED to do.

Have always worried about that, as that's also what happens when something goes wrong with the Alternator (have had THAT happen before) OR when the Fan Belt goes bad (have had THAT happen before too).

It just so happened that today, when it was noticed, that the Fan Belt got checked, and strangely, the Fan Belt actually WAS fritzed.

Anyway, back to the Manifolds-to-Head Gasket. Is there anything special that should be known about THAT?

Was kind of hoping that maybe the Slant Six could be like the P-Code Ford FE's Cast Iron Shorty Headers, and not take a Gasket. The reason that the Cast Iron Shorty Headers don't use Gaskets is because the Cast Iron Shorty Headers have to be able to "move around" a bit as the temperature changes to keep them from cracking.

Have noticed that the Slant Six Manifolds also have to be able to "move around", and that's why they get only 10 ft/lbs (according the Chilton's Manual) of torque on the Nuts holding the Manifolds to the Head.

This is the third set of Manifolds that have been on Lorrie since she came to live with me. The first two sets cracked where the Down Tube from the Exhaust Manifold connected to the Tubes coming from the Head.

Decided that it was because of the Engine torquing and THAT was where all the stress was taken by the Exhaust Manifold because it was connected to a stationary Exhaust Pipe.

Solved that problem by putting a heavy brace between one of the Bolts where the Exhaust Manifold mates to the Exhaust Pipe, and a bolt on the Bell Housing which means that NOW instead of the Exhaust Manifold flexing, it's the Exhaust Pipe that moves when the Engine Torques, and the Exhaust Pipe is on flexible hangers.

Could supply a JPG of that arrangement.

Anyway, thanks for the response and information.

Hope you are well.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

If you do this, you will want a Remflex gasket for best sealing of possible uneven surfaces if you didn't have the manifold milled flat.


x2 on Dan's belt suggestions I haven't thrown a Gates or a Napa brand unit yet.

-D.Idiot

But it's there! Second paragraph, which consists of only one sentence. You can get a gasket kit from Remflex that includes the manifold-to-head, hotbox, and headpipe gaskets.
Take apart, scrape carbon out of underside of intake, free up the manifold heat control valve (probably stuck) and make sure it's intact and complete and functioning. Use Remflex hotbox gasket to reassemble.
They're almost certainly already leaking there.
If it does not, the wrong alternator or alternator bracket is installed. Show us pictures.
Good.
Installation tips and techniques here and here.
That torque figure is one of the very few correct facts in the Chilton book. Don't rely on it.

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Hey Daniel,
Got it.
As a matter of fact it is NOT stuck. It is remarkably free turning. Has a big round weight on the outside of the Manifold.
It is.
Alright.
Will check to see. There is a crackerjack machine shop guy in Livingston, Texas (thirteen miles to the east of here) who can plane the Flanges of the Intake/Exhaust Manifolds to make sure they are flat and straight.
It has the original Alternator Bracket. BUT, it started cracking, and so had it welded up with an additional plate welded in to keep it from cracking again.

The problem MAY be the wrong Alternator. Have another one on hand. Will compare them and use the one that has the Pulley furthest onto the Shaft. The unit that is presently on Lorrie looks to have the Pulley about 1/8" closer to the Nose of the Shaft, and is thus 1/8" out of line with the Cooling Fan Pulley. Won't know this for sure till the Radiator is removed so that the Pulleys can be accessed.

Was thinking that maybe as a last resort, that the holes in the Bracket could be "slotted" to make them adjustable, and the unused part of the Slots filled with a piece of metal, held in place with washers on the Bolts.
Will get them once the Radiator is removed.


Read this.
Had already found THIS expostulation.
Have two of the Chilton's Manuals. A big Green one called "Chilton's Auto Repair Manual 1964 - 1971", and another smaller tome called: "Chilton's Dodge/Plymouth Vans".

Anyway, went to sleep about 9:00 p.m. Awakened at 11:45 p.m. and couldn't go back to sleep. Was thinking about tomorrow and the Radiator Removal to access the Pulleys on the front of Lorrie's Engine. That's why this post is being done so early in the morning. Am going to go back to bed.

Will keep you updated.

Regards,

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Wednesday Morning Update:

Drained and removed Lorrie's Radiator this morning.

Just a quick note on something that was wondered about the other day, and that was: Can Transmission Fluid be removed through the Cooling Tubes going to the Radiator?

The answer to that is: Yes. It would take overnight to do it, but there is a small steady stream coming out of the Port side Transmission Cooling Tube. Already this morning there has been a pint come out, and it is still dribbling. It isn't messy at all, and the Engine doesn't have to be running. Just put a nice clean kettle that would hold sixteen pints under the Tube, and when it's done, the Transmission would be empty or nearly empty of ATF.

So now, on to the V-Belt Pulley alignment issue.

As it turns out, the Cooling Fan Pulley, the Damper Pulley, and the Alternator Pulley are in PERFECT alignment. Checked them with a straight edge and they are fine.

The Gates brand Belt that was on hand here fit perfectly.

Wiped it down with a thin coat of Permatex Belt Dressing to condition it, and let it dry. It was then installed and properly tensioned.

Am going to air up the Compressed Air Tank and blow as much of the Rubber Dust from the OLD V-Belt as possible off of the Alternator and surrounding parts.

Which now brings us to the Intake/Exhaust Manifold-to-Head Gasket issue.

The first thing is that the Exhaust Manifold IS definitely leaking, and is getting worse the more that Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six Engine is run. The vehicle will NOT pass inspection if it is not fixed.

The Radiator is out of the vehicle making it easy to access the Front Nuts, and the Rear Nuts are easily accessible from inside the interior. BUT, removing the Radiator is not big deal. It takes about a half an hour to remove it.

The MAIN problems are: 1. Funds are low, and to get the Remflex Gasket is an iffy situation money wise. 2. Availability of the Remflex Gasket would have to be worked out.

I think I can fade the financial end. It would be tough, but could get done if I'm careful.

Acquiring the Remflex Gasket would be time consuming, unless maybe NAPA, or AutoZone could get them for me.

The second MAIN problem is the possibility that the Studs on which go the Nuts might break off, and THAT would put a real kink in the works, though it seems that having that happen is just a chance that one has to take in any case.

Which brings me to this question. Does Lorrie REALLY need the Remflex Gasket?

At this point, all that is needed is to be able to pass Inspection.

It is realized that having the BEST is always preferable, but Lorrie is only going to be driven around town and once a month to the next town thirteen miles away.

Am thinking that it would be acceptable to just get whatever Gasket can be obtained at NAPA and let it go at that.

It's a matter of doing that NOW, and maybe going to Remflex at a later date, or taking the time and money to do it with Remflex now.

Have carefully read SlantSixDan's thesis on installing the Slant Six Manifolds, and would dearly LOVE to do it EXACTLY that way, but practicality rears its ugly head here, and just getting Lorrie back to being on the road is the MAIN thing.

Am going to be giving the removal of the Manifolds a good long look. It has to be done. NOW, or a bit later when all the other stuff (Transmission, Tachometer, Fuel Gauge, an etc.) have been sorted out.

Want to get Lorrie up and running just to make sure that she will.

THEN will come fixing the Exhaust Leaks, whether with Remflex or whatever else is available here locally.

Anyway, you see my dilemma? What would YOU do?

Hope you all are well.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Wednesday Afternoon Update:

Went out and perused the task of removing the Intake/Exhaust Manifold(s). Decided that since it had to be done to get Lorrie inspected, that I might as well just go ahead and do it without any procrastination.

Removed the Vacuum lines, Return Spring, and Throttle Linkage to the Carburetor and took the Carburetor off the Manifold so as not to let it get hurt or in the way.

Took off the Choke Mechanism.

Took off the Rubber Fuel Line from the Metal Tube coming from the Fuel Pump, going to the In-Line Fuel Filter, and then on to the Carburetor.

Unhooked the Throttle Linkage from the Accelerator Pedal.

Removed the Oil Dip Stick and Dip Stick Tube.

Removed the Transmission Dip Stick.

Then proceeded with the removal of the Brass Nuts holding the Manifolds to the Head.

Would you believe that they all came out without a hitch, except one Brass Nut and one Triangular Washer. They didn't didn't drop, but have succeeded in hiding somewhere under the Manifolds. They will be discovered once the Manifolds are removed.

Am going to have to remove the Starter to get enough clearance between the Manifolds and the Heads to clear the Stud onto which fit the Brass Nuts.

Then have to remove a Nut holding a Brace between the Exhaust Manifold and the Transmission Bell Housing.

Then the last thing is to remove the Throttle Linkage Bracket from the bottom of the "hot box", and the Manifolds will be able to be pulled away from the Cylinder Head far enough to get the Gasket installed.

If it is decided to remove the Manifolds, they will have to be taken loose from the Exhaust Pipe Flange. Then they will be completely free to be lifted out. Am hoping that THAT won't be necessary, but have an Impact Wrench which will do the job if it HAS to be done.

So all in all, it has been a pretty productive day. Got the Radiator removed, and the Fan Belt problem fixed. Except, I don't know how old this NEW Fan Belt is. They are relatively inexpensive, and maybe a "Fresh" NEW one would be a good thing to install.

Am going to have to go to the NAPA in Livingston, to get a NEW Gasket, and may get a Fresh Fan Belt at that time.

Next thing that needs to be done is to separate and clean up the Studs that came out with the Brass Nuts, and Remove the Studs from the Cylinder Head that didn't come out with their Nuts. Will clean them all up and reinstall the Studs into the Cylinder Head. Then clean up the Brass Nuts, and Triangular Washers.

Am kind of amazed that everything got done. Am hoping that it doesn't rain tomorrow so that the rest of the Manifold removal can be accomplished.

Then am hoping that it all goes back together as easily as it has come apart.

Hope you all are well.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All (and especially SlantSixDan)
Friday Afternoon Update:

Have gotten the Intake/Exhaust Manifolds separated from the Cylinder Head. Checked and cleaned the Manifold Gasket Faces. The Exhaust Flange on Cylinder Number Four is about 1/64th of an inch short. Figure that THAT is negligible.

Have a new Gasket Set from NAPA this morning. Am going to use some High Temperature RTV on both sides of the Gasket.

Have gotten all the Brass Nuts, and all the Washers (of all types) cleaned. All the Studs are fine. Didn't come anywhere near breaking any of them off.

Have read Daniel's expostulation of the Gasket Installation, and the part about using a Phillips Head Screwdriver to put the Triangular Washers on the Bottom Studs. Also read about the method of using some thread tied to the Triangular Washer as a way to get the Washers on the Studs. Both methods seemed kind of tenuous. So gave it some thought.

See what you think of THIS idea of how to do it.

Have some Q-Tips with about 8" wooden sticks (available from a pharmacy). Am thinking of attaching the cotton end of the Q-Tip to the Triangular Washer with a bit of Super Glue. Then using the Stick like one would use a piece of thread, except the Washer wouldn't be dangling.

Once the Triangular Washer is in place, and the Brass Nut installed, then just pulling the stick loose, which will leave aught but a dab of Super Glue and some cotton fibers on the Washer which won't hurt anything.

Also, Daniel said that he has a "magnetic insert" that fits inside the Socket to hold the Nut in place, and to keep it from going too deep into the Socket to thread onto the Stud. Would like to know where to get such a "Magnetic Insert"? Especially one that would work on Brass Nuts.

Anyway, it's getting ready to rain here, so installing the Gasket is going to have to wait for a better weathered day.

Hope you all are well.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Since you put it that way I understand. No use in going overboard if you don’t need it.

Your gasket is leaking now... There is probably a reason for that. I’d say that a regular gasket from the parts store would do just what you need but the manifold will have to be very close to flat - actually a good idea for any gasket.

If one is 1/64 off it isn’t much and may make no difference at all but that means all the other ports have to be tightened tighter just to pull that one up to seal. That extra pressure keeps the manifold from sliding along the gasket as smoothly as it should and could eventually break it or almost definitely leak again in the future. The future could be next week or next year.

You shouldn't need any kind of sealant on either side of the gasket. It will just blow out anyway if the manifold isn’t tightened flat to the head and could get in the way of movement. Always keep the movement and stress in mind. Any binding or bending and you’ll have trouble. I know it’s a pain but you really don’t want to do this job again any time soon?

For what you want I think you are on the right track though. Get a Felpro gasket from the NAPA store and bolt that baby on. I would seriously consider milling the surface that mounts to the head if you have time though. It leaked before and will again.

The Q-tip idea is a good one but it’s really not that hard. You put the washer and/or nut up next to the handle of the screwdriver. Poke around until you feel the end of the stud and just let the washer slide down. It’s hard(er) than the others but definitely not impossible. The problem with the Q-tip is getting your fingers in there to knock the washer off of it. It’s pretty tight in there. Mine went right on with the Phillips head. It sounds more complicated than it is.

If you can’t find an insert for your socket, sometimes a second nut works just fine. I think that is what I used. A magnet is useless on brass nuts anyway.

You can drain fluid out of the cooler lines but it may take a while. What I do is drain the pan (which doesn’t drain the torque converter) and maybe overfill it a little with new red fluid. Start the engine with the cooler line removed and shut it down as soon as I see a hint of new red fluid coming out. Really takes two people. One with their hand on the switch and one hollering instructions. It’s dangerous but I’ve done it for years. You do not want to run the engine until the transmission is dry.

I’m not sure if draining the way you are will drain the pan but that may not be your objective.

All-in-all I think you are going OK for what you want.

Danny

I still cast two votes (both hands) against wasting time, effort, back pain, perfectly good cusswords, beer, and money on a parts store gasket set that will almost certainly not seal completely in at least one location.

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Hey Mr. Danny,
That was my thinking also.
Actually, the reason that it started leaking is because the Engine had sat for sixteen years. The gasket had just dried out, and all it needed was a little heat and pressure and it just disintegrated and blew out.
The Manifolds ARE so very close to be perfectly flat that I don't think it's going to be any problem.
For no more driving that Lorrie is going to be doing, it may be some time before there's any more trouble with the Gasket.
I was debating on whether to use some high temp RTV, but am thinking that I won't.
Right.
In actuality, that's EXACTLY what has been gotten and what is going to be done.


Actually it DIDN'T leak before when Lorrie was up and running and being driven a couple of times a week. It only blew the Gasket after having been gotten back up and running after sitting idle for sixteen years (sinice 1996).
Actually, the Washer is Super Glued to the end of the Q-Tip and the Q-Tip has an 8" long stick. The Washer is on the end of the Q-Tip like a lollipop. There's no having to knock the Washer off. It gets put on and after the nut is on, the Q-Tip is pulled loose from the Washer with the Cotton being where it tears loose. Will be posting some JPGs of this soon.
Well, I've done this operation twice before, and can remember that it was a PITA.
The socket set that I have is a Metrinch, and the way to hold the Nut in THAT socket is that the Nut is put into the Socket with a layer of Paper Towel over the mouth of the Socket. The Nut gets pushed in and the Paper Towel holds it in place. One the Nut is on the Stud, pulling the Socket off removes the Paper Towel.
Actually, the only reason that the Transmission needed ANY draining was that I over-filled it. But I took down the Rear Universal Joint and pulled the Drive Shaft out and it drained the Transmission over the Rear Transmission Seal.

Only mentioned that pulling the Cooling Tubes would also work because that had to be done to get to the front of the Engine, and it was noticed that the ATF COULD indeed be extracted from the Transmission that way without starting the Engine. But as you said, it DID take over night for it to happen.
I just wanted to take out three or four pints.

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Daniel,
Can I say that you're probably right, but that I have to give it a try in hopes that it will work well enough that Lorrie can pass inspection?

BTW, about installing the Bottom Washers: I've made up the "Washer Lollipops" using Q-Tips with 8" wooden sticks stuck to the Triangle Point of the Washer with SuperGlue.

Have already put one of them on and have to say that it went on perfectly and is a POSITIVE way of positioning the Triangular Washer on the Stud. Will post a JPG of the Washer Lollipop soon.

Presently, the Manifolds are on the Studs.

The Circular Brass Washers are on the end Studs with the Brass Nuts holding them in place.

The top Four top Triangular Washers and Brass Nuts are on.

The Center Stud has a Cupped Circular Steel Washer and a Steel Nut.

All the Studs were liberally coated with NeverSeez, as were the surfaces of the Triangular Washers that contact the Manifolds.

BTW, the contact surfaces of the Triangular Washers were polished to a mirror finish so as to permit unfettered slippage of the Manifolds.

QUESTION: On the bottom of the Center Intake Runners, some say to use the Cupped Circular Steel Washers, and others say use the Triangular Washers. Have on hand here both Cupped Circular Steel Washers and Triangular Washers. Which would be BEST to use?

In actuality, doing what is being done with Lorrie is a pass time, so none of it is wasted. As for the effort, doing this is GREAT experience, and love doing it. There has been no back pain, as my neighbor came to help me put the Manifolds back into place, and they went on flawlessly the first time. Have not had any occasion to use any perfectly good cusswords because everything has gone amazingly smoothly. Because of the Liver problem with which I am dealing, am not allowed to drink beer (I hate it when that happens). And as for the money, it was less than $15.00 for the FelPro Gasket Set.

BTW, did some research on Remflex Gaskets, and did you know that there is a whole segment of people who absolutely HATE Remflex?

Anyway, will let you know honestly what happens with this Gasket Installation.

It may or may not work, but I had to give it a try.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor