Why do you insist on brass nuts? Just make sure the threads on the studs are in good condition, and use steel nuts with "neversieze".

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225

Hey Charrlie,
Well, Lorie's Manifolds were fastened on with Brass Nuts. And it seems that the conventional wisdom here is to use Brass Nuts. But there MAY be an alternative on the horizon.
Am already using Neva-Seez on the all the Threads and Washer Faces.

See the NEXT post for an update:

Thanks for the response.

Hope you are well.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Thursday Morning Update Number Two:

Got to the eighth (of thirteen) Nut and it stripped out before reaching 8 ft/lbs of torque. Fortunately, the Stud on which the Brass Nut stripped was accessible, and the Spiral Stripping was able to be removed using a piece of Cotton Cord instead of taking all the Nuts and Washers loose and taking the Manifolds off the Cylinder Head.

Have heard back from Danny at the Crane Company. His supplier doesn't have Brass Nuts this small, but is checking around. But the question came up: Could Stainless Steel Nuts be used? They wouldn't rust to the Stud. And Danny's supplier HAS Stainless Steel Nuts of the proper size and thread.

Am going to curtail work until this is resolved. There's no use going on like this.

Makes me want to go: "Hmmmmmmmm?"

JC
______

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Sure, you could use stainless ones if you want.

You are having an unreal amount of trouble with manifold stud nuts. On the one hand, you're worrying too much about their material. On the other hand, regular normal off-the-shelf-and-out-of-the-box Dorman brass nuts work fine if the studs are in good condition. It sounds very much to me as if you would be very wise to put in all new studs. As I mentioned in a previous post in this thread, you may find that steel nuts don't get cut up like the brass ones are, but the underlying cause won't have been addressed.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Hey Daniel,
Danny at the Crane Company has found the NEW, 5/16", 1/2" Wrench Size, Fine-Thread, 3/8" Thick, Brass Nuts! Will be shipping them to me tomorrow, which means that they should be here early next week.

If THESE strip out before reaching the torque specification of 10 to 12 ft/lbs, am going to go to Stainless Steel Nuts.

Will just have to wait and see.
Was trying to reuse the Brass Nuts that came off of Lorrie's Studs.

Have had a number of people tell me that one should NEVER reuse Brass Nuts after they have been torqued to spec and then run through many heat/cool cycles.
As was mentioned previously, was wanting to use what came off of the Studs, and they WERE Brass.
The Studs seem to be fine. They are clean, and not in any way boogered up. AND the three Brass Nuts that have stripped have each been on a different Stud. The first one was on the bottom front center Stud. The second one was on the bottom Stud just ahead of the bottom front center Stud. And this last on was on the second bottom Stud behind the rear bottom center Stud.
Alright, though that is probably NOT going to happen. Not only do I not have a Stud Puller, but should one break off in the Cylinder Head, it would be fatal, as it would be beyond my resources to continue with what would have to be done to fix THAT problem.


As far as I can tell, the problem is NOT with the Studs. It's most likely with these OLD Brass Nuts being mostly "worn" out.

As was mentioned previously, if these NEW Brass Nuts strip, will be going to Stainless Steel Nuts.

Anyway Dan, thanks for the response.

Will let you know what happens.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

You're using old brass nuts? Oh! Um...why going to special trouble to order new ones? Again: standard Dorman item, p/n in previously linked manifold discussions.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Hey Daniel,
Yes. Thought they'd work. I hate to take stuff off and not put it back on. After all, they've been on Lorrie for years and years, and were fine all that time. I know I'd hate to be taken away from MY normal place of being, and get thrown out just because I got old.
Because these OLD ones just won't work any more. Time to retire them. I hate to do it, but some things just have to be done.


Yes, but as you know, I don't use credit cards, so can't order stuff off of the Internet, and live in the boondocks where when an Auto Parts or Hardware Store counter person is asked for something like a "fine thread", or a "Brass Nut" their eyes glaze over, and they go into sort of a brain dead coma.

This morning, went to Lowe's hoping to find SOMETHING in the way of a Brass Nut, and was directed to Aisle One.

There were a row of stacks and stacks of drawers filled with things. Nothing was where it should have been, and there were only one or two of each thing (like a Brass Wood Screw or Brass Hook), in neat, little, sealed plastic sacks with a price tag of $2.49!

AutoZone actually DID have 5/16" Brass Nuts, but they were 1/4" thick, not the 3/8" thick like the one's on Lorrie's Studs, and they wanted $2.59 including tax for each one of the seven that they had on hand.

But not to pout! My friend Danny at the Crane Company where I used to work, has obtained a whole box of the EXACT Brass Nuts that is needed, and is sending it to me UPS for FREE! They should be here Monday or Tuesday.

"All's well that ends well." (Shakespeare)

Will let you know how it all turns out.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

JC, I would imagine all brass nuts are not made equal. Some are just for electrical connections or something that have no torque put on them. Thickness will help but maybe not...

The Dorman nuts are made for this purpose and work every time. Call the parts stores and ask if they carry or can order Dorman # XXX_XXX. You might get it next day.

Here's hoping the nuts your friend are sending are the right kind of brass nut. Hopefully it has just been worn nuts giving you all the trouble.


Danny

Hey Danny,
Have not factored any of this into the equation. You make some good points.
Alright.
To be honest with you Danny, the Auto Parts Stores in this area leave much to be desired. There used to be a Parts Store here locally run by two guys who really knew what they were doing. They'd get anything and everything to help out. But the place was bought out by the NAPA Store Owner in Livingston who put his wife, who knew nothing about Auto Parts, in charge. People (including myself) would ask for a certain part, and without even looking it up, the lady would say: "We don't have that, and can't get it!" Actually, she didn't want to be there. The place was in business for three months and then closed. It's now a Golf Cart Sales Office.
Will find out when they get here. But my friend is an Engineer/Designer, and he knows what the Brass Nuts are for. I have every confidence that what he has obtained will be what is needed.
Well, if these don't work, am going to go to Stainless Steel.

Nonetheless, this is going to finally get done no matter what it takes. Am going to be using the "awaiting" time to do a bunch of stuff around here that has been being neglected because of working on Lorrie.

Thanks for the response. Hope YOU are well.

JC[/quote]

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Daniel,
The Brass Nuts that are coming from Houston have not arrived yet, and have not been able to reach my friend there to find out what the deal is. So in order to keep the project moving, have been doing some further research on the proper Dorman Brass Nuts.

In one of your posts, you specified that the Parts Number for the PROPER Brass Nuts is Dorman Part # 849-001

Have found that O'Reilly Auto Parts in Livingston can order them for me, but there is a problem.

Here is the O'reilly webpage for the Dorman Brass Nuts

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/searc ... brass+nuts

It shows a 5/16" SAE (045-039) Part # 680-001, a 5/16" USS (045-039) Part # 680-002.

Then in the bottom row of the Brass Nuts shown, there is a Part # 849-006, Part # 849-007 and Part # 849-104. But this bottom row of Brass Nuts doesn't give the size.

BUT, they don't show any Dorman Part # 849-001.

In an instance such as this, what would you advise?

TIA

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Well JC you have certainly stirred the pot so to speak. BUT as far as part no's go I dont know which you need, Course thread or Fine thread. BUT i did find an interesting post that you can read for your enlightenment. :http://www.capitalareacobraclub.com/ind ... 921.0.html As to why they list it as SAE or USS is beyond me... I dont know why they didnt list it as UNC or UNF. As in the post i linked... USS=Course Thread, SAE= Fine Thread

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MRO....

Cheap, Fast, Reliable.... Pick 2...

Hey Mr. OF,
This whole thing has turned into the proverbial "Eating Mule Meat" situation. The more one chews on it, the bigger it gets! I've always said that things get done when they're supposed to get done, and apparently getting Lorrie's Manifolds back on isn't supposed to happen till later.
The Studs in Lorrie's Cylinder Head have COARSE threads on the segment that goes into the Cylinder Head, and FINE threads on the segment on which the Brass Nuts are threaded.
Have not read this yet, but will and get back to you.
This is GREAT information.

On the bottom row of Brass Nuts on the O'Reilly Auto Parts webpage, the wider nut on the right hand side looks like the Brass Nuts that were ORIGINALLY on Lorrie. Most of the Nuts look to be 1/4" thick. Lorrie's ORIGINAL Brass Nuts are 3/8" thick.

Anyway, thanks for the response. Am just hoping that no one thinks that all this is a PITA!

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Went to O'Reilly's Auto Parts to talk with them about Dorman Brass Nuts. Talked to Dustin.

He looked up the Dorman AutoGrade Brass Nut, 5/16" SAE (Fine Thread), Part # 680-001.

He is having to E-Mail someone higher in rank to see if he can get this item.

He said to call back Thursday, April 26, 2012 after 12:00 noon for the response.

Asked him to look up the number that Daniel referenced (Part # 849-001) and after looking it up, Dustin said "It is the SAME PART!"

They are $.39 each.

BUT, from the picture, this Brass Nut looks to be 1/4" thick. NOT 3/8" thick.

Tried to get some exact specifications from Dustin about these Brass Nuts, such as thickness, and he said that there is not any information about them on his computer. Not even the price!

Here is the URL for the O'Reilly Auto Parts Dorman Brass Nut webpage:

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/searc ... brass+nuts

There is on the bottom row three Brass Nuts: Parts# 849-006; Part # 949-007; and Part # 849-014. BUT, there is no size shown for any of these items.

Look at the one with Part # 849-014 (lower right corner). IF it is a 5/16" SAE, it looks to be 3/8" thick. But Dustin was unable to even tell me what size Brass Nut it is because THAT information is NOT on his computer.

In fact, Dustin doesn't even have access to the O'Reilly Webpage on his computer.

Am still dead in the water on this Manifold Gasket caper till the Brass Nuts from the crane factory in Houston arrive, supposedly tomorrow afternoon.

After THAT, am going to order two dozen of the Brass Nuts from O'Reilly Auto Parts. That is, if they can even get them.

Will let you know how everything goes.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Ok the 2 different part no.'s ARE the same nuts. Specs from the Dorman site confirm this. (dunno why 2 different part no's but not MY inventory problem) The thicker looking nut that you referred to is a completely different nut. Its spec is a 3/8-16 UNC/USS nut. Hex size of 9/16" and 5/8" thick. So its way to large for your application. Sense you have gottten some of the part no's from the oreiley's page you can input the dorman part no here at Dorman

_________________
MRO....

Cheap, Fast, Reliable.... Pick 2...

Hey Mr. OF,
Alright.
Have you ever noticed that sometimes a little sloppiness in details makes no difference, and at other times, it makes all the difference in the world?
That's why I said that "IF it is a 5/16" then it looks to be 3/8" thick". There's nothing on the O'Reilly webpage that tells what the size is.
Thanks for the link and reference.

Have you ever noticed that just about the time that you get everything worked out that the need to do it ends?

Happens to me all the time.

Anyway, thanks for the response.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor