One winter project was to upgrade my headlights and reduce the persistent surging.

I got the headlight conversion from slantsixdan which included new light, bulbs, sockets and relays. I got a new alternator was the 46 amp which I got through Ray at Old Car Parts NW.

I had been running a Echlin VR1001 and had installed a new field wire and the recommended grounding from the VR housing to the Alternator housing and to the Battery -.

What I did not do was check the voltage after I installed the new alternator.

The headlight install went fine with 12 g wire and belt and suspenders grounding. The system checked out fine with just the battery. When I ran the motor I blew both filaments in both bulbs.

I plugged in the old headlights using the relay system and so far it has worked. But, I thought it was time to bypass the ammeter and install a relay for the ignition (line power) source for the VR. That done along with double checking connections and grounds and adding some corset and girdle grounding and an 8 g wire from the Alt + to the Bat+ I ran it again.

I was getting 14.1 everywhere at medium idle. Revved up I am seeing 15.4. It sounds like I need a new VR.

I hope I have not damaged the new alternator or battery. I don't know how high of a spike it took to blow the bulbs. The fuses held. Careful inspection showed no other burned wires or connectors. As part of the install I had cleaned the bulkhead connectors.

One issue that interfered with my process was that I was not believing the initial readings on my multi-meter for voltage. It was constantly hunting all over by as much as 1 volt. Even after repairing grounds and connections I am still seeing fluctuations. It settles down at high RPM. This lack of solid reading makes finding lower voltage drops at different points in the system difficult. I am picking up a new multimeter.

I had some trouble with the spell check function. I hope this comes through looking right.

64 dart GT, 1980 225 motor, auto, 2bbl conversion, power top, big ole fat stereo amp. Rag top, dogs car.

I agree that your voltage regulator is not doing its job. I don't think you damaged the alternator or anything else ('cept the headlight bulbs).

Check to make sure the voltage regulator is adequately grounded.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

At the time of the bulb mishap I had a 12 g wire from the alternator housing to the mounting bolt on the VR. I had not run a separate ground back to the battery and I was relying on the alternator grounding at the bracket.

In my belt and suspendering I improved my grounding of the VR at the firewall and I ran the wire from the VR mounting bolt to a radiator bracket bolt where it meets a wire directly to the Bat- and the wire to the Alt housing.

I also ran a second grounding wire from the Alt housing to a grounding site which connects directly to Bat - via a 10 gauge. You recommend a direct wire from the alt housing to the VR mounting bolt and then a second wire back to the Bat -. Your approach is one less connection and one less opportunity for errant current to defeat grounding.

Dan
When i was in the yard picking up the GM HEI module I got a bank of Hella relays. I was impressed by their very tidy waterproof seals and metal mounting strips. All three relays have the same numbers and look identical. However, the connecting pins and sockets are quite a bit whimpier than the relays you had provided with my lights. Also the wires are different gauges on each relay.

It looked like they were 36 or 38 amp relays. One had the wiring for the full power circuit with 12 g wires, the second looked like 14 the third maybe 16. The low power circuit (switched) had very small wires, maybe 18 g or even 20.

I plan to run the relay with the 12 g power circuit wires to power my HEI. You noted somewhere that one should run a "15 amp fuse and carry spares" for the GM HEI conversion. Do you see any problem with running these Hella relays I describe?

I went home at lunch and replaced my Echlin VR1001 voltage regulator with the old mechanical one i had on the shelf. It must have been brand new. I opened it up and it was spanky clean, made in USA.

The voltage reading immediately dropped to 13.4 and after running awhile 12.6. At high revs it got up to 14.0 at first and then maybe 13.1 with all the appliances on.

Here is the physics miracle:When testing across the battery terminals while running I am getting a steady reading of 12.6. It is the same at the alternator terminal. BUT when I put my red lead of my multi-meter on the positive lug of the starter I get 13.4 cycling up to 13.9. IT IS A MIRACLE -ENERGY CREATED!

I do this time and time again. At both the starter lug and the starter relay lug I am nearly a volt higher and I am clearly seeing the one half volt throb on the multi-meter. The headlight are holding solid connected directly via relays to the alternator.

I have not taken those connections apart and will this evening. Even so, can the battery cable (cool to the touch), starter windings, solenoid, coil be acting as a capacitor?

Can anyone explain this?

No… Can’t
Nope.


But you could sell the extra juice to a Chevy Volt owner at mile 38.

Never mind my wiseass evil twin. I had a problem with a VR 1001 not keeping steady voltage, regulating higher than normal, intermittently spiking amp gage for up to 20 seconds, and like you, reinstalled the old mechanical points regulator.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

If your lights pulsate bright/dim in time with the flucturating meter readings, then there's something to diagnose. If not, the meter's screwy.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Most digital multimeters (DMM) are 2Mohms or higher input impedence; that's good for some things (checking IC's outputs) and not so good for others (checking batteries). I have a 10K load I use with my 20Mohm impedence meter to avoid those issues; sometimes I also use a relatively large capacitor to filter out fluctuations in the DC. I keep old analog multimeters (AMM) around; for some applications they're far superior to DMMs.

Remember that the voltages you're reading aren't really DC with the engine running; they're fluctuating and the meter may be latching onto the peak voltage rather than the RMS. Generally, I've not seen inexpensive meters read true RMS voltages. but they're usually quite accurate for true DC. The battery will tend to smooth out the fluctions, especially low frequency ones.

You might connect the meter between the battery + and the starter post; then reverse the connections and see what you get. If you get a + # both ways, you're latching onto the high point of an AC signal on top of the DC.

To help students remember that your measuring devices become part of the experiment, I gave them a nearly dead 9V battery, an inexpensive AMM and a cheap DMM. With the DMM, it said 8V; with the AMM, it said 3V; with both, both said 3V. Unfortunately, 2 of 3 students put down the reason for this as "cheap meters" and rather missed the point of the exercise.

I made a lot of progress on my 64 dart and it is running better than ever. But I still have electrical issues. I am ready to replace the VR again. But I feel like I am missing something.

Recent work includes new Alt 48 amp, changed out VR 1001 for a new old style mechanical VR. Ammeter bypass, installed volt meter, reworked all the grounds, installed relays to power the VR and the coil, really cleaned the firewall connectors, battery terminals and under dash fuses. Previously I had run Alt-VR grounding and replaced the field wire.

I still have headlight surges that also show up on dash lights and can be seen on my new decent quality multimeter.

What I am seeing is good 12.7-13.5 at the battery, alt +, coil etc with a some occasional flicker. Then seemingly unprovoked the motor begins to mis fire and the voltage jumps around everywhere from 12-16 volts.

It happens for awhile and then will go back to normal charging and better idle.

Since I bypassed the ammeter and put in a voltmeter I have noticed that I get a twitch of around .2 volts in the onboard volt meter when the turn signals are on . Both in the headlights and dash lights I feel like I am seeing bright flashes rather than dimming that does not correspond with the blinker twitch or idle speed. The pulses correspond to what I am seeing on the multi-meter. However, the idle stumble and changes sounds and feels like low spark.

Poor idle has been a persistent problem over many years. However, now I have just done the valve adjustment, tuneup, new alt, wiring etc and I am still getting essentially the same electrical problem. Now it is happening on a much better running car.

I feel like I am getting an intermittent and irregular partial short which is somehow defeating the grounding and throwing off the VR. I have not gone through all of the tail, brake and blinker light sockets. The headlights are now on relays and much brighter but flickering. No amount of loading or lightening the loading seems to reproduce the voltage spikes. I am never seeing a drop below 12. But, the idle goes to $#!+ just as the voltage spikes.

I have changed the wires awhile back. Maybe the primary coil wire is somehow arcing to ground? I am switching the relays using the old wiring circuit. The gas gauge and temp gauge work. All my gauge

I share your suspicion of the engine wiring. How carefully have you scrutinised the bulkhead disconnect and all its connections?

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I am still tracking a voltage pulse in my 64 Dart. It seems to be directly related to an ignition miss and shows up on gauges (inboard volt and multi).

I have a constant 1 volt rapid tick. Full fielding the alt helps if not eliminates that tick. I also have a periodic stumble of at least 2 volts. It is very noticeable in the lights and the engine misses. That seems to be completely random. It is worse when the engine is hot. It has been more noticeable since I installed the HEI.

I checked the resistance of all the grounding sites. With he engine not running lights off and ignition off the multimeter goes directly to zero from the battery negative to any other ground. However with the lights OR ignition on, engine not running I see .1 volt resistance between the battery and any other ground. With the engine running (obviously ignition on) I see the same resistance everywhere including between the battery negative and the VR housing. I have grounds to the VR mounting screw.

When I pulled the bulkhead connectors for another look and cleaning I tested resistance at each male connector on the engine harness side. I was expecting to see the multi meter either stay at 1 (no connection) or go straight to zero (grounded no resistance). On the tab connectors powering the front turn signals I saw .1 volt resistance. I cleaned up the front blinker/parking light sockets and the screws grounding the socket assembly to the body without any change in the reading.

I have a new VR. I tried two different alternators. I load checked the battery. I completely disconnected the stereo. My gauges all work. The gas gauge may be off a bit.

I feel like I am somehow defeating the ground at the VR enough to cause it to mis-read line voltage. It must be some kind of feedback that I saw described in an older post as "lather rinse repeat".


I suspect the headlight switch. I have never figured out what the door switches power in the convertible. I could see that as a potential partial ground. I am having trouble getting the knob off the headlight switch. I do not see a set screw. It does not seem to turn or pull straight off.

I guess the only other thing might be spark plug wires. They are not old and do not spark at night.

Don

This what you describe sounds like a fault(s) in the ignition switch, ammeter and its circuitry, and/or welded splice -- in that order. Of these, the welded splice is the real pain-in-the-nuts to work with, so start focusing on the other two. One good check is to turn the ignition switch on (leaving the engine stopped) and put the (-) probe of your voltmeter on the battery negative post. Put the (+) probe on the battery positive post and note the reading, then put the (+) probe on the input side of the ballast resistor -- that's a wire directly from the output of the ignition switch. You should read very, very nearly the same voltage if all's in order.

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I too was running a new Echlin VR1001 solid state regulator with secondary ground loop to eliminate any ground side voltage drop on my 67 Dart. After a month or two it would intermittently cause a full over charge pegging amp gage for ten to 20 seconds. It was defective. After reinstalling the mechanical regulator the charging circuit settled down into normal range.

Previous to installing the 1001 regulator, bulkhead connector, all its brass connections, and most of the under hood conductors were replaced with new.

One ignition alteration I performed was to have voltage regulator read system voltage at the threaded stud of the starter relay via a relay triggered when ignition switch is in run. This modification was part of the Mad Bypass performed that removes several bulkhead connections from the charging circuit. After a year of operation, the charging voltage remains within factory specs.

Also I have installed /6Dan’s headlight relay kit to relive bulkhead, and headlight switch current load resulting in brighter headlights. Unless one is building a concourse 100 point restoration, and what are the chances of spending that kind of dough on a Chrysler A Body, I highly recommend powering all high draw electrical loads on these cars with heaver gage conductors, and relays.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

I checked the voltage at the connection where the ballast had been. The ballast was bypassed for the HEI. I went on to check several other places and was seeing exactly the same readings as I had at the battery.

After installing a new headlight switch I looked closely at all my connections and reworked all my main grounds using some Ox guard conductive grease.

Some where in all that (likely the HEI connections) I seemed to have improved or eliminated the intermittent missing. But I still have the pulsing which shows up a steadying cycling of .3 volts on the digital multimeter and the steady twitch on my onboard volt meter. (the amp meter is bypassed)

WDJR's comments on the voltage regulator resemble my experience. I run the VR off a relay powered directly to the battery terminal. So a new VR helps the situation but is not the problem. Plus they are expensive.

I will have to drive the car and see if the gains of last night hold up. I have not repeated my resistance test since I put in the new light switch. I also did not inspect the floor high-low switch.

I am beginning to think the ghost is a personnel problem with the head mechanic. I probably have a comedy of errors and am making the mistake of assuming everything I have 'fixed", tested or replaced completely rules out that point as a problem.