Hey All,
Have been having a problem with Lorrie Van Haul (a 1967 Dodge P200 Postal Van, with a 225 Slant Six Engine) being sporadic in starting.

Some time ago, had problem with the Voltage Regulator which was the result of having installed a NEW Fuel Gauge Sending Unit, which was powered by tapping into the Wire going FROM the Run Switch TO the Voltage Regulator IGN Terminal. Not a good thing to do. But that problem was eventually resolved.

Subsequently, an HEI System was installed using a Mopar Electronic Distributor from Old Car Parts, a Ford E-Coil, and an LX301 Control Module.

After some unrelated problems with Lorrie's Alternator were cleared up, a NEW Voltage Regulator was installed and was found to be charging the Battery at slightly over 18 Volts.

THAT Voltage regulator was replaced, and everything was fine until IT was found to be charging at a rate of slightly over 16 Volts.

Then Lorrie, who was running just fine in early November, all of a sudden quit starting with the onset of cooler weather.

At that time, there was some work being done on Ms. American (a 1964 Ford Galaxie) that had to be finished, and when it was done, attention again focused on Lorrie Van Haul.

NEW NGK ZFR5N Spark Plugs were installed, and when Lorrie was cranked, she started right up. It was hoped that the Spark Plugs had been the culprit causing her not to start. BUT, such was not the case.

Lorrie will not start when the weather is cold. She WILL start when the temperature is approaching 70 degrees, but not consistently.

This not starting is an intermittent problem.

And so it was postulated that the LX301 was not getting the FULL 12 Volts from the Battery. But subsequent tests show that THAT is not the case, although being here by myself I have not been able to check to see what the Voltage to the LX301 is WHEN the Starter is cranking.

Then the thought occurred that maybe the Voltage Regulator that was putting out the over 18 Volts to the Battery and the subsequent one that is putting out over 16 Volts to the Battery MIGHT have damaged the LX310.

So the question is: Will 16 and 18 Volts to the LX301 cause it to start working intermittently?

Any thoughts and information would be greatly appreciated.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Tuesday Late Morning Update:

Just got back in from seeing if Lorrie's Spark Plugs were getting Spark.

Pulled Spark Plug Wire Number 5, put a NEW NGK ZFR5N Spark Plug in it, laid it on a Ground, Turned on the Run Switch, and hit the Start Switch and got NO SPARK.

Did the same with Spark Plug Wire Number 4. Got NO SPARK.

Pulled the Wire from the Ignition Coil and did the same thing. NO SPARK.

Pulled the Distributor Cap. With the Run Switch OFF, hit the Start Switch. The Rotor turns.

Hooked up the Test Light and fastened the Alligator Clip to a Ground, turned on the Run Switch, and touched the Probe to the LX301 Control Module's IN Terminal and got a light. So there IS 12 Volts going to the LX301's "+" Terminal.

Also touched the Probe to the LX301 Terminal that is connected to the Ignition Coil's "-" and got a light. Should THAT happen?

Am going to go out in just a bit and do all those tests again just to make sure. If there is no spark then there is something wrong with either the LX301 Control Module, or the Ford E-Coil.

Will let you know the results of the recheck.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Tuesday Early Afternoon Update:

Went out and ran the test on Lorrie's Spark Plugs again. NO SPARK.

Have removed the HEI System (LX301, Heat Sink, Ford E-Coil, and attendant Brackets). It is all sitting on the work bench even as I type.

Will be taking the whole assembly to Livingston the next time THAT trip is made and will stop at Smith Auto Electric to have everything tested.

Am thinking that instead of going back with another STOCK NAPA Voltage Regulator, that maybe we should put in an Electronic Voltage Regulator. Is that EVEN possible?

Anyway, nice today, rain tomorrow and into next week, so nothing more will be done till THAT inclement weather is passed.

Will keep you all updated on any progress.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

I have yet to see any of the new electronic versions of the old buzz box work that well. Back in the day, it was a must to run the Mopar EVR and 1970's alternator to be able to run the Mopar EI since it provided much
more stable regulation of the system's voltage. I have yet to even burn up an OEM or Standard Motor Products EVR (in some cases I have even gone from the 46 amp to the 65 amp alternator and they've never skipped a beat. (I rewired my 1967 Signet to use the late EVR and the Mopar EI using junkyard parts I had laying around. No problems.)

There are numerous articles on the web to install the Mopar EVR, and you will have to get a later mopar alternator that has the two field prongs (or if your alternator is a rebuild the possibility is they used a 1970's core and grounded one of the field prongs to the alternator casing to make it compatible with the 1960's charging system.

Good Luck,

-D.Idiot

Hey Mr. DI,
Alright.
Alright.
Well, Lorrie isn't burning up her Voltage Regulators. The problem is that the last two that have been installed were putting out over 18 Volts and almost 17 Volts respectively.
Lorrie doesn't have a Mopar EI. She has Dan's HEI System. But THAT shouldn't have anything to do with the Voltage Regulators allowing TOO MUCH Voltage to go to the Battery.
Will ask Smith Auto Electric about this as they have rebuilt BOTH of Lorrie's Alternators.

Anyway, thanks for the response.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Good question!
How much voltage can the HEI module handle?

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

as well as how little?

_________________
If only I had the time to do what I want to do instead of what I have to do!

I know from experience that the newer GM 1-wire alternators can put out up to 16 volts if not 'checked'....so that would be the worst case scenario high side. I also know that the GM HEI gets salty and misfires if in the high -10 to 11 volt range...

(I can also say that the Mopar EI gets occasional misfires in the same range, and will drop 2-3 cylinders regularly on a V-8 once in the 9-10 range if the engine is still running).

Would be interested to see what the factory specifies.


-D.Idiot
"Benefits of trashing cars in demo derbys, you can see just how long it can last on so little coolant or battery power...if nothing else gives first..."

Have you checked that nos dissy? I purchased one from the same supplier, great people, but, the " old" in nos was certainly a major component ! I stripped the unit, removed all the old hardened lube, basically did a service on the unit, recurred the governor and set the reluctor gap. Would it run out of the box? I didn't want to find out, it was very tight to turn and I feared stripping the nylon gear. The reason I mention this is that they have been sitting for a looong time, combine that with mopars less than perfect quality control and its possible your reluctor gap is off or the pickup coil is faulty, I'm sure either could play havoc with starting. I'm not sure what Vr your running but I wouldn't bother with anything other than electronic and make sure your hei, alt, vr are all on common earth . I found running the hei from the alt batt terminal the easiest, just switch the relay using the old coil pos wire and I have had great success. If your handy with basic electronics you can refit your points dissy and use it with hei, do an Internet search on the subject, at least it would rule out you electronic dissy, good luck with the trouble shooting!

Hey Mr. SS,
Other than noting that it turned easily, and that the Vacuum Advance Assembly functioned properly, nothing else was done.
Being a novice at this, it never occurred to me to do what you did.
The unit that arrived here DID!
As mentioned above, it worked just fine right out of the box. And it functioned perfectly for about six weeks. During that time there were other issues involved that entailed changing the Electro-Mechanical Voltage Regulator, and the first NEW VR was found to be allowing over 18 Volts to the Battery. It was changed out for ANOTHER VR and it was found to be putting out nearly 17 Volts. Thus the question about THAT much Voltage damaging the LX310 Control Module.
It is a NAPA VR32SB
If we go to an Electronic VR will make sure that this is the case.
Lorrie's Wiring is not stock. It is all specially wired.
Am starting out as a complete dilettante at this. BUT, am learning a LOT at a pretty high rate.
Thanks. And thanks for the response. Will update any progress.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Mr. AT,
Have yet to see any definitive specifications on this. BUT, in doing the research have come across some interesting stuff, and will be noting THAT during this phase of the Lorrie Van Haul caper.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Mr. DI,
Have found a number of references saying that 14.5 Volts is what should be happening. Have not only been worrying about the LX301, and Ford E-Coil, but also what over 18 Volts might have done to the NAPA Legend 75 Battery. Although running at 18 Volts and almost 17 volts was not done VERY much. Less than a couple of hours on each.
There was not, as far as I know, any time that there was LOW Voltage involved.
Have gotten numerous references to the condition of less than 12 Volts causing erratic behavior in the "Big Three" HEI System (Mopar Distributor, GM Control Module, and Ford E-Coil). Have also had numerous references to the speed at which the Starter is cranking the Slant Six Engine. If it isn't being cranked fast enough, it affects the starting. BUT, as has been previously mentioned, at times Lorrie's MIGHTY 225 Slant Six would fire RIGHT UP and just function perfectly. BUT, at other times, without any changes in anything, she would just not cough even with Start Fluid.
Am in the process of doing a pretty intensive amount of research. If any factory specs are found, will post them here.

Anyway, thanks for the response.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

I know the orange MOPAR Orange box can run as low as 6 volts. I had my alternator crap out on a the drive home one night a few years ago, no brushes left and the springs were conducting as much as they could.......Had to stop and let the Optima bounce back, restart, and let it charge up a little then drive a few more miles until the engine would die around 4 volts. It was a long night, last 12 miles were interesting but letting it charge up to six volts I could drive another 2 or 3 miles......made it home though.

So the question still stands......

With my fairly new 1974 style voltage regulator, NAPA version shows as high as 16 volts on start up at times but will stay around 14 volts cruising down the road. It doesn't seem to phase the Orange box or the 3 ohm Pertronix 60,000 volt HEI style coil.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Hey Mr. AT,
Have found some interesting comments on a number of other forums which I will post here:


Apparently the Standard-Bluestreak LX-301 didn't have the "built in voltage regulator" feature. Am going to change over to the NAPA Eichlen TP45 as the replacement for the apparently burned out Standard-Bluestreak LX-301.
The Voltage Regulator that has been used on Lorrie are NAPA VR32SB. And the last two have been letting over 18 Volts, and almost 17 Volts respectively go to the Battery. And apparently THAT has fritzed the Standard-Bluestreak LX-301.

Tested the Ignition Coil: Across the Primary ("+" & "-") Terminals it is .50 Ohms. Across the Secondary ("-" & Output) Terminals is 8,500 Ohm. So the Ignition Coil seems to be alright.

Am going to be testing the Mopar NOS Electronic Distributor today. Hopefully IT was not affected by the excessive Voltage allowed by the NAPA VR32SB.

Will let you know how that goes.

Thanks for the response.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Make sure your regulator is well earthed , run a common earth between all components as I mentioned previously,it's possible your reg is not sensing correct system voltage hence overcharging . Why rely on an inbuilt protection of the hei? Consider it like wearing a seatbelt....it's a good thing to do but I'm in no hurry to rely on it!! Why not fit an electronic reg and keep the hei (and any other electronics you have) happy with a nice stable supply? Just my thoughts,hope it helps