Suggested reading,
http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Elec ... oltage.htm

http://books.google.ca/books?id=3q85p56 ... nt&f=false

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/how-doe ... 32753.html

You do know that mechanical regulators are adjustable and need to be adjusted periodically?

_________________
Mattelderca
78 NYB (gone now), two S series, three old Snow Cruisers and a Doo.

If he bought a new NAPA voltage regulator for his vehicle it will have electronic guts in it, they haven't sold a real buzz box in over 6 years now, unless it was sitting on a warehouse shelf gathering dust...The new regulators have had a very poor track record so far. FYI.

-D.Idiot

I thought that as well, but a quick (and I say quick!) search of Napa's site with that part number shows the real buzz box. I am in complete agreement with moving to a real EVR and confirming ALL wiring. A "big three" upgrade might be a good thing to look at as well. These two articles are car audio centric, but it still applies here especially in the older vehicles.

http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/for ... 73496~PN~1

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-JB1Jc05CRC ... r_ups.html

This is a quote from the second link, As the vehicle in question has a modified electrical system that appears to have some issues, it's hard to tell exactly what is going on. I do not believe that in this case a 4 gauge wire is needed, a nice 8 or 6 gauge would suffice. It is nice to keep the grounds larger though.

_________________
Mattelderca
78 NYB (gone now), two S series, three old Snow Cruisers and a Doo.

Hey Steve,
Just went out and checked the Ground on the NAPA VR32SB Voltage Regulator. It is SOLIDLY Grounded. Checked between the Alternator Case and the VR. Checked between the VR and the Engine. Checked between the VR and the Chassis. ALL SOLIDLY Grounded.


Alright.
Wasn't attempting to RELY on "an inbuilt protection". Was noting that my suspicions about the excessive Voltage being permitted by the VR as being what might have fritzed the Standard-Bluestreak LX-301 Control Module, and instead of getting another LX-301, would go with a NAPA Echlin TP45 which HAS the "inbuilt protection".
Exactly.
Am in complete agreement.

And in pursuit of THAT "nice stable supply", have found the NAPA Echlin ECH VR438 Electronic Voltage Regulator.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=V ... 0077982222

It's the third and fourth items on this page.

Whaddaya think?

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Mr. M,
Haven't looked at these yet, but will most certainly as soon as I am finished here.
Thanks for the references.
I knew that they were adjustable, but there is a notice included in with the NAPA VR32SB Voltage Regulator that says:
It's raining here today, but will be clearing up this evening. Am planning on taking the Standard-Bluestreak LX-301 Control Module to Smith Auto Electric or O'Reilly's Auto Parts to have it tested tomorrow. If it is fritzed, am going to be going with a NAPA Echlin TP45 Control Module.

BTW, what do YOU think about the NAPA Echlin ECH VR438 Electronic Voltage Regulator?

Will keep you updated on developments.

Anyway Mr. M., thanks for the response.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Mr. DI,
Have bought four NEW NAPA VR32SBs within the past year and all of them were Electro/Mechanical. None of them were Electronic. The first two got fritzed due to my having connected a NEW Fuel Gauge Sensing Unit to the Wire going from the Run Switch to the IGN Terminal of the NAPA VR32SB Voltage Regulator, which incidentally also took out the Alternator.

The last two NEW NAPA VR32SBs have both been faulty in that the first one was allowing over 18 Volts to go to the Battery, and the second one was allowing over 17 Volts to go to the Battery.

At first, it was thought that the problem MIGHT be that the NAPA Legend 75 Battery was at fault. But another KNOWN good Battery (a Duralast from Ms. American, a 1964 Ford Galaxie) was put in, and the NAPA VR32SBs did the same thing with it.

What do YOU think about going to a NAPA Echlin ECH VR438 Electronic Voltage Regulator?

Anyway, we are going to get this whole problem straightened out sooner or later. Thanks for the response.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Mr. M,
As was mentioned to Mr. DI, the NAPA VR32SB Voltage Regulator is an Electro/Mechanical device. Have noticed that in order to go to an Electronic Voltage Regulator, the Alternator has to have two Field Terminals. There are presently TWO Alternators here. One has only ONE Field Terminal, but the OTHER one (presently installed) has TWO Field Terminals.
Lorrie presently HAS a "Big Three" upgrade (Mopar Electronic Distributor, GM Style (Standard-Bluestreak LX-301) Control Module, and a Ford Style E-Coil).
Haven't yet looked at the references, but will do so as soon as I am finished here.
Thanks for the references.
Am convinced that the problem has been the NAPA VR32SB Voltage Regulators ultimately overcharging the Control Module. Before this overcharging condition FINALLY overpowered the Control Module, Lorrie was running wonderfully. It's just that the over-voltage finally got to the Control Module and Lorrie's starting got intermittent and erratic, and finally the LX-301 just gave up. Changing to the NAPA Echlin TP45 Control Module and the NAPA Echlin ECH VR438 Electronic Voltage Regulator SHOULD solve the problem.
Although the Multi-Tester shows that all components are SOLIDLY Grounded, it might be just a good idea to go ahead and run 4/6/8 gauge wires just to make sure. Wouldn't hurt, and would be another part of the project.

Anyway, thanks for the response.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Friday Early Morning Update:

Have the NAPA VR32SB Electro/Mechanical Voltage Regulators out of Lorrie, all packaged up, along with the Standard-Bluestreak LX-301 Control Module taken apart from the HEI Module, and am planning a trip to Livingston today to see if either Smith Auto Electric or O'Reilly's Auto Parts can test them.

Am planning on going back with a NAPA Echlin ECH TP45 Control Module, and either a NAPA Echlin ECH VR438 Electronic Voltage Regulator, a Mopar Performance P3690732 Electronic Voltage Regulator, a Standard VR 128 Electronic Voltage Regulator, or an Echlin VR1001 Voltage Regulator.

Determining which Electronic Voltage Regulator is the next part of this equipment selection. Is any of the above mentioned Electronic Voltage Regulators preferable?

Hopefully these NEW items will cure Lorrie's problem of not starting.

The NAPA Echlin ECH TP45 Control Module apparently has a couple of built in features that make it better than the Standard-Bluestreak LX-301 Control Module in that it has a an RPM Dwell Control Function that limits the amount of Dwell Time that the Ignition Coil sees at low RPM.

It also has a Voltage Regulator feature that keeps electrical spikes from damaging the unit, which it is suspected to have, over the time that Lorrie was up and running with the HEI System, destroyed the functionality of the Standard-Bluestreak LX-301 Control Module.

One of the things that is apparently imperative in the switch to an Electronic Voltage Regulator is that the Alternator HAS to have dual-Field Terminal.

The Alternator presently in Lorrie HAS dual-Field Terminals, though the OTHER Alternator here DOESN'T, but apparently there is a way to convert it to a dual-Field.

There is also another modification that is recommended when installing an Electronic Voltage Regulator is to wire a REDUNDANT Ground System for the entire Charging System.

Anyway, will let you all know of any progress later today.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Good luck with your shopping trip. The best way to check earthing is by measuring voltage differential, ie , when you get it running place a multimeter probe on the vr body and the other probe on the alt body and measure the voltage differential... the smaller the voltage reading the better of course. Sorry if I'm telling you how to suck eggs, just throwing suggestions out for you. The other thing is what brands to buy, all I'm thinking is that in this day and age I would imagine all these " manufacturers" outsource these types of components and probably change suppliers regularly, so a " good" brand one week may not be as good next time? Perhaps rely on the parts shops experience, I'm sure he would know which brand hei module give the best service. I would think that aftermarket electronic vr can be found in single or dual flavours? Not sure if you have them over in the USA but the brand name " Ingrams" certainly does them here in OZ . Make sure your supply to the ign term is switched and used for the reg only,and measure the voltage at this terminal compared to the battery when it's running, if the reg isn't seeing correct bat volts it can't do it's job. You bat voltage drain could also be due to a faulty alt diode, been there on a Bosch alt once. Perhaps try and isolate components, eg check if field wire is still powered when off ( it should be a switched power supply from ign, but if reg is live it will still power the alt fields), if ok then try disconnecting the batt wire at the alt?

Hey All,
Friday Evening Update:

Ms. American 3.14159 took me to Livingston today at 9:30 a.m. She performed flawlessly, though the first mile or so was kind of bumpy because she had been out and about last Sunday, and had been sitting patiently since being parked and her tires had gotten flat spots on them that didn't return to round till they got warm.

Took the year old NAPA Legend 75 Battery to Smith Auto Electric and had Wesley do a load test on it. It failed the test!

Took the Standard-Bluestreak LX-301 Control Module to O'Reilly's to be tested. It failed the test!

Took the NAPA Legend 75 Battery and two faulty NAPA VR32SB Voltage Regulators back to NAPA. They replaced the Legend 75 Battery with a BRAND NEW one, and traded the two faulty NAPA VR32SB Voltage Regulators for a NEW NAPA Echlin PT45 Control Module to replace the Standard-Bluestreak LX301 Control Module.

So NOW, what needs to be done is to decide on which Electronic Voltage Regulator is needed, order it on line, and see if we can find instructions on how to hook it up. If any of you have any relevant information, don't be shy.

Will be installing the NEW NAPA Echlin TP45 Control Module on the Heat Sink, installing the Heat Sink on the HEI System Module, installing the Assembly back into Lorrie, and then when the Electronic Voltage Regulator gets here, installing it.

So we seem to be well on the way to getting Lorrie back to being mobile.

Will keep you updated on developments.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Good news!

_________________
Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

Hey Mr. SS,
Everything went swimmingly. See the Friday Evening Update.
Are you sure I understand this test?
Steve, will there be voltage involved in the cases of the VR and the Alternator?
As the Friday Evening Update noted, we now have a NAPA Echlin PT45 Control Module, which has, from all my research, turned out to be, along with the AC Delco, the most highly regarded Control Module, having a built in Dwell feature, and a built in Voltage Regulator feature.
Actually Steve, the Auto Parts Stores in this area are few, and the personnel have as their qualifications for working in an Auto Parts Store that they know how to operate the computer which has all the information available on it. None of them are "car" people. They are all "computer" people.
Am going to be relying on advice from here and some other auto forum sites for recommendations, and am going to be getting the Voltage Regulator off of the Internet.
Will check out "Ingrams". Thanks for the heads up.
It IS!
The IGN Terminal of the VR IS getting full Battery Voltage. Have measure it, and it is within .01 Volt difference.
Alright, will check that.
As the Friday Evening Update noted, the year old NAPA Legend 75 Battery failed its Load Test. And am suspecting that THAT was either what started the domino effect, or at least was involved in the domino effect.

Will be getting all this back together as soon as the Electronic Voltage Regulator issue is sorted out, and whatever unit is decided upon is ordered and delivered.

Will, of course, keep you all updated.

Anyway, thanks for the response. Hope YOU are well.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Reed,
Am still unsure WHICH Electronic Voltage Regulator to get. Got any suggestions?

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

With the stock 70's chrysler EVR, you can easily wire it per the diagram in this link...

http://www.mymopar.com/charging.htm

Besides a quick retrofit, you'll run the extra wire from the VR to the other field. You will need the electrical plug for the Mopar Module as well (napa online shows it as Echlin VRC38, which also seems to match up with the Mopar EVR at VR38.

-D.Idiot

Hey Mr. DI,
Thanks for the reference.
Well, in doing my homework, I found THIS:

http://www.4secondsflat.com/electricalsystems.html

And THIS:

http://www.4secondsflat.com/regulator_tech.html

Have finished reinstalling Lorrie's HEI System.

Have bolted the NEW NAPA Echin PT45 Control Module to the Heat Sink with the "special silicone grease" between the Control Module and Heat Sink and installed a Ground Wire that goes from the CM to a Valve Cover Hold Down Bolt.

Have bolted the CM/HS Assembly to its Bracket.

Have bolted the CM/HS/B Assembly to the E-Coil.

Have bolted the CM/HS/B/E-C in place.

Have connected all the Wires to their proper locations.

Have installed the Connector from the CM to the E-C.

Have connected the Ground Wire to the Valve Cover Hold Down Bolt.

Have installed the NEW Legend 75 Battery.

All that is needed now is to get the Electronic Voltage Regulator.

BUT, I have some questions.

Tested the Wire attached to thee Alternator's Field Terminal using a multi-tester. The probes were placed between the end of the Wire connected to the Field Terminal of the Alternator, and to a ground.

Multi-tester indicated a "short" circuit!

There is a WARNING printed on the OLD NAPA VR32SB Voltage Regulators that says: "Do not short any terminal to ground".

If we are getting a short circuit between the Field Terminal on the Alternator and Ground, wouldn't it also ground the VR32SB if that wire were connected to the Voltage Regulator's Field Terminal?

Also, am getting a "short" between the Field Terminals of BOTH Alternator's and their Case. Is this normal?

Anyway, the Electronic Voltage Regulator referenced above looks to be able to be installed without modifying the Wiring. Just connect it up the way that the NAPA VR32SB was connected.

Whaddaya think?

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor