When I first bought my car it ran quiet, smooth and problem free as far as basic mechanical operation. It was at 650 RPM in N with high beams on, 1700 RPM fast idle, and TDC for timing. Now it is all screwed up, was, rather, now I am fixing it. Idle was at 850-900 RPM, fast idle was over 2000 RPM and timing was after TDC more than 2 degrees. Since the engine settings were messed with by someone else at a shop that shall remain nameless, the engine has developed a bad knock at idle that matches RPM. Is it possible that the incorrect settings have lead to this knock?

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Leela: 1970 Dart 225 CID
Coulmn Shift TorqueFlite
7 1/4" Axle 2.76 Gears

Go ahead and save that weird car, the sedan, the 6 cylinder, the C-Body. If you want a big block musclecar and that's all you care about, your missing the point.

If that was the only change, yes.

Moving the timing to after TDC is a problem. Have you verified your timing mark?

Most slants like a lot of timing. Have you done anything to increase compression, or have you installed a different intake part, Cam, intake, carb and or exhaust? Is it stock?

CJ

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

The mark is good. The engine is 100% stock, has been one piece since 1970.

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Leela: 1970 Dart 225 CID
Coulmn Shift TorqueFlite
7 1/4" Axle 2.76 Gears

Go ahead and save that weird car, the sedan, the 6 cylinder, the C-Body. If you want a big block musclecar and that's all you care about, your missing the point.

Is the knock timing related?

Have you checked the timing chain for wear?

Pull all the plugs. Turn the ignition off, then pull the battery cables. Pull the cap, and look at the rotor.

Rotate the engine in one direction, then reverse the rotation. Mark the crank pulley. How many degrees do you have to rotate the engine in crank degrees to make the rotor turn?

CJ

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

Knock sound metallic in nature, not timing (I'm pretty sure) related, engine seems fine at idle.

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Leela: 1970 Dart 225 CID
Coulmn Shift TorqueFlite
7 1/4" Axle 2.76 Gears

Go ahead and save that weird car, the sedan, the 6 cylinder, the C-Body. If you want a big block musclecar and that's all you care about, your missing the point.

Oh. That kind of knock.

No. Settings of that sort aren't likely the problem. Stop driving it and get some information. What is your oil pressure? Your going to need a gauge.

Did the engine get revved up abnormally high at some point? Clean the oil pump bypass and shuttle, make sure it isn't sticking. Find out exactly what oil pressure you have.

You may be listening to a rod.

CJ

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

To test this ,pull a spark plug lead off each cylinder, one at a time with the engine running. use long well insulated pliers ,or take the risk of getting belted with 10,000 volts.you can turn the engine off ,pull a lead then start again if you like.
If the knock reduces you have found the offending rod/big end bearing.
Main bearings are a bit harder to check. oil gauge is good for this one.
Other sources of a knock can be :
Low oil pressure
flex plate bolt loose on auto trans.
Very worn camshaft/lifter
Broken rings
fuel pump
loose brackets
water pump broken
broken valve timing parts(springs etc.)
piston slap
good luck.
Brendan.

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1963 AP5 Valiant 225 PB 904 Stock except extractors & 2 1/4 inch exhaust.


1962 S series valiant 225 PB auto. factory every thing. Full restoration job.
Currently on hold till AP5 is on the road.

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Leela: 1970 Dart 225 CID
Coulmn Shift TorqueFlite
7 1/4" Axle 2.76 Gears

Go ahead and save that weird car, the sedan, the 6 cylinder, the C-Body. If you want a big block musclecar and that's all you care about, your missing the point.

Well the engine was set at over 2,000RPM on fast idle, that is abnormal. The bad timing may have bent something or done something.

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Leela: 1970 Dart 225 CID
Coulmn Shift TorqueFlite
7 1/4" Axle 2.76 Gears

Go ahead and save that weird car, the sedan, the 6 cylinder, the C-Body. If you want a big block musclecar and that's all you care about, your missing the point.

If you think so. But no.

CJ

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

My thought is that if the engine is cold the max safe engine RPM was about 1700 RPM and that if it is set higher, on a totally stock engine then it can stretch, bend, gouge, scrape or something because it is too much stress for a cold engine to handle? Idk, again, just a thought, then again she does have over 71,000 and that is about 140,000 if it were a modern car.

Food for thought

I guess then it's just tired, but the guy who worked on the car made a comment the conversation went something like:
Me: I hope it can go at least 100,000 before it needs a rebuild, I'll pull it apart and restore it.
Mike: You'd be luck if it reached 70,000!


Hmmm! Sabotage? Did he take advantage of my ignorance? Maybe?

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Leela: 1970 Dart 225 CID
Coulmn Shift TorqueFlite
7 1/4" Axle 2.76 Gears

Go ahead and save that weird car, the sedan, the 6 cylinder, the C-Body. If you want a big block musclecar and that's all you care about, your missing the point.

Have you checked the oil pressure yet?

You have a 43 year old car. Mileage is peripheral to how long it's going to last. The light on the dash doesn't indicate adequate oil pressure. It just tells you it's not zero.

CJ

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

Yeah I'd be looking at an oil gauge to see where it's at, if you get drain back while the car sits overnight and it doesn't get oil pressure up soon after starting, it's not going to like it. If the oil pump is out of tolerance it might have pressure but not a lot (dash light comes on at something like 7 psi, so if you have 20 psi of oil pressure you'll get no light and the engine is not going to like you on the highway).

You can also get knock if you are a quart or 2 low daily driving it...checking the dip stick should be a semi-daily ritual.

-D.Idiot

CJ, DI, well your both right. I will get an oil pressure gauge and check it out, btw where can I tap into the oiling system to get a good reading? The Dart is going into retirement this July anyways. She will be restored back to factory specs, and will become a family cruiser. I want to have a car that my kids (when I an older) will enjoy, and cherish from a time in Detroit they could only imagine about while I dream about...

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Leela: 1970 Dart 225 CID
Coulmn Shift TorqueFlite
7 1/4" Axle 2.76 Gears

Go ahead and save that weird car, the sedan, the 6 cylinder, the C-Body. If you want a big block musclecar and that's all you care about, your missing the point.

You can tap in at the pressure switch location on the oil pump, just below the oil filter. I removed the switch from my engine and run a sending unit for a high end electric gauge set. The mechanical gauges work, but if the tube to the gauge is damaged, you can blow oil all over the place, including inside the car.

CJ

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing