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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
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So this is the Alt I was thinking about
Totally not cost-effective. You can get a way better alternator for much less money.
Quote:
The only reason I am considering upgrading is because the in dash Ammeter is reading below center - for a while. It takes a drive to get it to remain dead center. car starts and runs fine, np. should i even upgrade?
Yes, you are (literally) playing with fire. Your charging system is overloaded.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:30 am 
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Turbo EFI
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Location: Carrollton, TX
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Very enlightening. Thanks, Dan!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:32 am 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:17 am
Posts: 329
Location: Seymour, TN
Car Model: 1965 Dart 270 w/ 66 Valiant front clip
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Quote:
Dan, does this mean I need to upgrade to a higher gauge wire and a higher output voltage regulator?
There's nothing such as a "higher output voltage regulator". You need heavy-gauge wiring and to upgrade or bypass the ammeter or convert it to a voltmeter.

For now, an easy immediate change to make the electrical system basically safe under the high load you're putting it under is to run two 10ga wires directly from the alternator's output terminal to the battery + terminal. Each of these two 10ga wires must have two 50A fuses, one located within inches of the alternator output terminal and the other located within inches of the battery + terminal. Put the wires in sleeve/loom and route them where they're not likely to be snagged or cut. Across the top of the radiator support panel with anchored zip ties works well, or tucked under the lip at the top of the rad support. Once you've installed these wires, your ammeter will no longer read correctly but you won't be running high current back and forth via thin wires through the firewall and low-rated ammeter, which is where the melt/burn/fire danger comes from -- and you can install a higher-output alternator.

I used to recommend an ammeter beef-up or stealth voltmeter conversion of the stock ammeter by R/T Engineering, but they split off that activity to Dashworx, and both companies now behave as though they'd probably lose toilet paper on its way from the roll to the intended application. I can't find the ammeter stuff on either company's page any more. There are other companies that do the stealth voltmeter conversion, such as this outfit. I've also seen people successfully buy an inexpensive generic aftermarket (e.g. Sunpro) voltmeter, take it apart, mount the old ammeter face over it and install the "looks like an ammeter but it's really a voltmeter" in the stock location -- connected appropriately for a voltmeter, which is different than the hookup for an ammeter. See here, and there's also a thread about it over here on another site (that site tends to have a lot more "noise" than this one so it's more important to filter the good info from the bad...the linked thread is fine, but if you're browsing along over there and you see something that interests you, post here and ask about it to double-check).

Another option: keep the stock ammeter but install an external shunt. See here for example.

What voltage regulator to get depends on what alternator you wind up with.

On the two 10 gauge wires, both will run to the "+" terminal of the alternator. One goes to the large post on the starter relay while the other goes directly to the "+" side of the battery as noted. Would this be correct?

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Michael Glass. Mopar stuff and some rusty Mopar stuff!
1965 Dodge Dart with 66 Valiant front clip. Other stuff...


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:35 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:05 pm
Posts: 3767
Location: Black Diamond, WA
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I ran a new red "0" wire down form the positive battery terminal to the large solenoid post and the two 10 gauge from the alternator tie into the same solenoid post.

You can see them from the pictures in the red link below.

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:21 pm 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:17 am
Posts: 329
Location: Seymour, TN
Car Model: 1965 Dart 270 w/ 66 Valiant front clip
Quote:
I ran a new red "0" wire down form the positive battery terminal to the large solenoid post and the two 10 gauge from the alternator tie into the same solenoid post.

You can see them from the pictures in the red link below.
Thanks but I still seem a bit confused. I see the one large wire on the side going to the starter relay but can't make out what is going to the alternator??

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Michael Glass. Mopar stuff and some rusty Mopar stuff!
1965 Dodge Dart with 66 Valiant front clip. Other stuff...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:16 pm 
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Supercharged
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Posts: 3767
Location: Black Diamond, WA
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You see the two 50 amp circuit breakers tied together coming off the solenoid?? They are hooked to two ten gauge red wires that go into the black plastic conduit that runs under the battery and out by the headlamp to in front of the radiator along with the headlight wires over to vapor canister and to the back of the alternator.

I guess I need to move over the engine a little more and take another picture.

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:28 pm 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:17 am
Posts: 329
Location: Seymour, TN
Car Model: 1965 Dart 270 w/ 66 Valiant front clip
Quote:
You see the two 50 amp circuit breakers tied together coming off the solenoid?? They are hooked to two ten gauge red wires that go into the black plastic conduit that runs under the battery and out by the headlamp to in front of the radiator along with the headlight wires over to vapor canister and to the back of the alternator.

I guess I need to move over the engine a little more and take another picture.
Ok spotted. Do both of those 10 gauge wires go directly to the one stud on the back of the alternator?? Or one to stud and one to field?

Which regulator would work best??

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Michael Glass. Mopar stuff and some rusty Mopar stuff!
1965 Dodge Dart with 66 Valiant front clip. Other stuff...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:23 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:05 pm
Posts: 3767
Location: Black Diamond, WA
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Quote:
Ok spotted. Do both of those 10 gauge wires go directly to the one stud on the back of the alternator??
Yes! You need both of them to to carry the 100 amp potential the Nipon alternator puts out if you should need it....like driving high end lights, stereo, extra cooling fans, extra heaters, rear defrosters, etc.....
They help to charge up the battery much quicker and keep it at peak voltage.
Quote:
Or one to stud and one to field?
No!
Quote:
Which regulator would work best??
The stock style regulator. It is flat and thin with 2 wires, green and blue. Read SL6 Dan's recommendations.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:52 pm 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:17 am
Posts: 329
Location: Seymour, TN
Car Model: 1965 Dart 270 w/ 66 Valiant front clip
Quote:
Quote:
Ok spotted. Do both of those 10 gauge wires go directly to the one stud on the back of the alternator??
Yes! You need both of them to to carry the 100 amp potential the Nipon alternator puts out if you should need it....like driving high end lights, stereo, extra cooling fans, extra heaters, rear defrosters, etc.....
They help to charge up the battery much quicker and keep it at peak voltage.
Quote:
Or one to stud and one to field?
No!
Quote:
Which regulator would work best??
The stock style regulator. It is flat and thin with 2 wires, green and blue. Read SL6 Dan's recommendations.
Thanks Ted. How is good is your Dart running with no ballast? I'd like to try this as well.

_________________
Michael Glass. Mopar stuff and some rusty Mopar stuff!
1965 Dodge Dart with 66 Valiant front clip. Other stuff...


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 Post subject: Ballast resistor
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:34 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:05 pm
Posts: 3767
Location: Black Diamond, WA
Car Model:
Quote:
Thanks Ted. How is good is your Dart running with no ballast? I'd like to try this as well.
It was a huge improvement in idle quality, getting full voltage and excellent spark plug color. When your driving short distances or idling in traffic for hours having a steady idle is really nice. Especially in bad weather when you have head lights, front defroster fans, wipers, radiator fans, radio, rear defroster, etc. going and the voltage is lower. It will idle at 550 rpm for hours in freeway traffic with out missing a beat. Before it use to stumble from time to time and a plug would load up. Never the same plug either....

The MOPAR ECU works fine with a full 12 volts as does the 3 ohm Pertronix HEI coil. It seems to be a excellent coil verses the MSD Blaster 2 and stock coils that I was running which would get too hot to touch. The HEI coil only gets warm where I have it mounted. The plugs last for years gaped at .045.

Not using the resistor the past 5 years or so and installing a 3 ohm coil is a good interim step to the GM HEI. I have a sheet of aluminum that bolts under the coil on the isolation mounts for the HEI and relay. It is ready to go when and if the MOPAR ECU dies.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:54 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:27 am
Posts: 28
Location: pa
Car Model:
im replacing all the other parts on motor with oem.... so i figured id might upgrade my 45-47 amp thats in my van now , how high can i go without making any upgrades to the system..seems 75 is the next step ( means upgrade ) ?????.....then again im only going to run a 200 watt stereo and some extra exterior lighting...gus .
Quote:
The Optima battery is fine.

The charging circuit must be upgraded before you upgrade the alternator -- it's marginally adequate for even the standard alternator. PowerMaster's alternator is probably not the best upgrade, either.

What deficiency are you finding in the car's electrical works that is driving you to look into upgrading? It may be a repair you need, rather than an upgrade.

Also, since you're new here: Welcome. Tune-up parts and technique suggestions in this thread. Carburetor operation and repair manuals and links to training movies and carb repair/modification threads are posted here for free download. Do the Fuel line mod and look into the HEI upgrade. Get the three books described in this thread as quickly as you can.

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new owner of a 1975 dodge street van seeking wisdom from other slant 6 owners


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:26 am 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:18 am
Posts: 257
Car Model:
Quote:
im replacing all the other parts on motor with oem.... so i figured id might upgrade my 45-47 amp thats in my van now , how high can i go without making any upgrades to the system..seems 75 is the next step ( means upgrade ) ?????.....then again im only going to run a 200 watt stereo and some extra exterior lighting...gus
The next step up would be a 60 amp, I just did this upgrade on my '63.

But as Dan stated there regarding the factory system:
Quote:
-- it's marginally adequate for even the standard alternator.
, you will have to upgrade your vehicle. If you try to push higher than factory amps through your original wiring and amp gauge there's a good chance you'll have a fire.

It is easy to upgrade though, I installed the new alternator and regulator ('63 had the crudely simple VR) and ran new wire to the battery.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:33 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:27 am
Posts: 28
Location: pa
Car Model:
thanks u know a place where i can get a denso alt ...at a reasonable price...thanks gus
Quote:
Quote:
im replacing all the other parts on motor with oem.... so i figured id might upgrade my 45-47 amp thats in my van now , how high can i go without making any upgrades to the system..seems 75 is the next step ( means upgrade ) ?????.....then again im only going to run a 200 watt stereo and some extra exterior lighting...gus
The next step up would be a 60 amp, I just did this upgrade on my '63.

But as Dan stated there regarding the factory system:
Quote:
-- it's marginally adequate for even the standard alternator.
, you will have to upgrade your vehicle. If you try to push higher than factory amps through your original wiring and amp gauge there's a good chance you'll have a fire.

It is easy to upgrade though, I installed the new alternator and regulator ('63 had the crudely simple VR) and ran new wire to the battery.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:48 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 13069
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model: 76 D100
I purchased one on e-bay earlier this year for abourt $30, shipped.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:34 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:05 pm
Posts: 3767
Location: Black Diamond, WA
Car Model:
Pick a Part junkyards.
I got mine for $20 and it was in great shape!

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG


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