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 Post subject: oil
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:27 am 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:07 am
Posts: 2132
Location: SF Bay Area
Car Model: 67 dart 2 door hardtop
The break in oil looks very clean, I didn't see any bits or anything.

I'll recheck the top half flow when I set the valve lash.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:23 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:05 pm
Posts: 217
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You're probably fine if you're seeing oil up there and you're not hearing anything abnormal. That was me that was dealing with it before and my bearing had spun. So I installed new ones without any measuring or proper tools which the board just hated. But it's working fine now lol.
If you're only getting drips, your bearing may have spun some but I doubt it. On a solid lifters engine, the oil reaches the top end in pulses as it goes through the cam rather than around a groove like on a hydraulic engine, so a bit of trickling/dripping rather than steady flow sort of makes sense.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:56 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 13031
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model: 76 D100
Quote:
I installed new ones without any measuring or proper tools which the board just hated. But it's working fine now lol.
I am glad your motor is working, but remember that people are offering you advice based on combined centuries of experience working on engines. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the advice given on the board. I fully understand needing to cut corners due to your circumstances, but it is always a good idea to follow best practices when working on the internals parts of your motor (or when doing anything, really).

Quote:
If you're only getting drips, your bearing may have spun some but I doubt it. On a solid lifters engine, the oil reaches the top end in pulses as it goes through the cam rather than around a groove like on a hydraulic engine, so a bit of trickling/dripping rather than steady flow sort of makes sense.

Welllllll,let's think about that. Let's assume the engine is idling at 800 RPM. That is crank RPM. The camshaft turns at 1/2 crank speed, so the cam is spinning at 400 RPM. 60 seconds per minute, 400/60 = 6.6666666667 cam revolutions second. That means that the oiling hole in the rear cam journal will be properly aligned to provide oil flow to the top of the motor at least six times per second. Granted, that is a pulsing flow, but, given that the rocker arm shaft acts as a simple "surge tank" for the oil flow, the pulses are so quick that the oil flow at the rocker arms should be fairly steady and not spurting.

Even at idle there should be a fairly steady stream of oil coming off the tips of the rockers. If you are only seeing drips with the motor running something isn't right (most likely the oiling holes on the rocker arm shaft are 180 degrees off).

Remember that the oil is passed from the rocker arm shaft to the passages in the rocker arms through a groove on the inside of the rocker arm. Here is the groove inside a mechanical lifter rocker arm:

Image

The rocker arm shaft oiling hole must be pointed at the shallow end of the channel in the rocker arm (roughly 3' o'clock in the above picture) so the oil flow will increase as the rocker arm rotates clockwise and the valve opens. If the oiling hole in the rocker arm shaft was point 180 degrees off, then the oil would not be directed into the passages in the rocker arm and would be forced to squeeze out in the clearance between the rocker arm shaft and the rocker arm. A little bit of oil might dribble down and lube the pushrod, but none would get to the valve stem since it is uphill from the rocker arm shaft.

So, if all you see is dripping with the motor running, I strongly suggest you verify that the rocker arm shaft oiling holes are oriented correctly.

Hydraulic lifter engines are a little bit different due to the full groove on the rear journal of the hydraulic cam, the different orientation of the oiling holes on the hydraulic lifter rocker arm shaft, and the different groove on the hydraulic lifter rocker arms. But the same principles apply.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:37 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:05 pm
Posts: 217
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Good info.
I really don't want to get back into discussing my situation again lol. Wasn't trying to disregard anybody's advice, just needed to get things done literally immediately and it turned out fine.


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 Post subject: dripping...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:50 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:07 am
Posts: 2132
Location: SF Bay Area
Car Model: 67 dart 2 door hardtop
I saw dripping at starter crank speed, but I'll check when idling, I agree there should be more. I ran it for the break in period, I don't hear anything abnormal at all, sounds wonderful. That said, I'll check/adjust the valve lash so I'll get a good look at the oiling situation then...

Does anyone tie/tape the 7/16 wrench to their hand so as not to drop it in the engine during valve lash adjust...?

bg


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:55 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 13031
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model: 76 D100
7/16? I thought it was 3/8 to do the rocker arms.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:08 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:05 pm
Posts: 217
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I honestly had no problems doing lash on my old engine. It's not that hard to keep the wrench or socket on once you get used to the feel of it.


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 Post subject: Thanks...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:30 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:07 am
Posts: 2132
Location: SF Bay Area
Car Model: 67 dart 2 door hardtop
I'll set the idle low and giver 'er a go...


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 Post subject: setting valve lash...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:00 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:07 am
Posts: 2132
Location: SF Bay Area
Car Model: 67 dart 2 door hardtop
Does anyone use splash guards, plastic or the like to catch stray oil? I was thinking of taping plastic around the head where the valve pan gasket goes to catch any stray splashing oil...


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 Post subject: Awesome...
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:11 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:07 am
Posts: 2132
Location: SF Bay Area
Car Model: 67 dart 2 door hardtop
I set the idle down to about 500-600 rpm, and set the valve lash. The system was oiling beautifully.

Can't wait to take her out for a spin.


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 Post subject: some pics...
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:35 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:07 am
Posts: 2132
Location: SF Bay Area
Car Model: 67 dart 2 door hardtop
http://s785.photobucket.com/user/67dart ... sort=1&o=0

http://s785.photobucket.com/user/67dart ... sort=1&o=1


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:52 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 13031
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model: 76 D100
Looks nice!

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Special thanks...
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:11 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:07 am
Posts: 2132
Location: SF Bay Area
Car Model: 67 dart 2 door hardtop
I want to thank D. Idiot, Reed and Agressive Ted for all their help and encouragement, and also Doctor Dodge for his help, advice, blue printed oil pump, and wonderful casting for the Dutra duals (I had my exhaust manifolds jet hot coated so they won't ever rust). I fabricated my own stainless down pipes from mandrel bends, then (via special clamps so I can dismantle the exhaust if needed) to a Y-pipe and 2 1/2 pipe all the way back. I fabricated the exhaust system with only 45 (135) degree bends or larger, so very good flow all the way through (and they are way clear of the engine, steering arm, tranny, etc.)). I used a glass pack, then a flowmaster 40 series, then an HP-2 at the tailpipe. It sounds terrific at idle and during breakin, I can't wait to take it out for a spin, very quiet but aggressive deep tone.

The dual Weber 32/34 DFT carbs are perfectly balanced for airflow and AFR is dead on spec. Sounds like a four barrel when I punch it down (on the old engine) this one hasn't been fully broken in yet. You can get two of these at Tom Langdon's website for $180 (yes, that's $90 each). See: http://stoveboltengineco.com/catalog/st ... id=1222026


I did go with an electric fuel pump, I didn't want to ever have to worry about wash down from a broken membrane. I first just bolted it to the frame rail, but it was soooo loud! Then, I used some really soft rubber mounts from McMaster Carr and the fuel pump is now whisper quiet. I installed a (Ford) emergency (inertia) cutoff switch in the trunk. These are only about $25 from Summit and really easy to install.

I'm considering electric fans, and even if I don't I definitely need a shroud, those fan blades are really sharp.

As you can see, I also installed an auxilliary fuse block for eventual headlight upgrades, etc. When the engine was out, I rewired the whole engine compartment; there were a ton of bad wires etc. and the firewall wiring block was a mess. I haven't replaced that yet, just a hole with wires and some foam around them right now. I did clean up the engine compartment, K-frame, master cylinder, steering box etc. I used a triple core aluminum radiator, keeps the slant at a nice 190 degrees no matter how hot it gets in San Jose...

Below is a link to my "sterile field" for when I adjusted the valve lash (did I mention that I hate oil leaks?). I can't imagine why anyone would want to do them without the engine running, it was so much easier. For me especially, since my lash adjustment was 0.012 for I and E, due to the cam I used (GM style, I think D. Idiot said).

http://s785.photobucket.com/user/67dart ... sort=3&o=0

BTW, the offy valve cover was way warped. I had it powder coated and then I took a belt sander to it to reveal the aluminum at the fins. I took two of the REEL gaskets silicone type slant six valve pan gaskets and glued them together with black RTV silicone (I pressed them between boards with about 150 pounds of weights overnight). It bonds them together really well as it is also silicone. I used RTV to glue the double gasket to the valve pan, but nothing on the head to gasket seal. I bolted it down pretty tight and it doesn't leak at all, and when I take the valve pan off the gasket shows only a vague imprint of the head sealing surface (it can take a lot of compression and come back to original shape). I hope the valve pan doesn't crack under the stress, but it was OK during the breakin period. I had a fabricator put in the back stove pipe and a nice baffle inside. I bought the billet PCV valve assembly in the back pipe.

Thanks all.

BG


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 Post subject: heater core...
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:27 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:07 am
Posts: 2132
Location: SF Bay Area
Car Model: 67 dart 2 door hardtop
In those pics I hadn't hooked up my heater core yet, as the hoses were in the way for when I did the valve lash. The rear stove pipe on the offy cover is in the way of one of the hoses, so I built a little pipe to go around the stove pipe. Here it is on the old engine. I soldered copper pipe elbows and some straight cuts to work around the stove pipe (painted them black). The old offy cover had a simple PCV cap that mounted into a hole in the valve cover and no stove pipe, but it leaked oil even with the compression seal. The old offy cover wasn't warped though....ugh.

http://s785.photobucket.com/user/67dart ... sort=1&o=0


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 Post subject: dual webers...
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:45 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:07 am
Posts: 2132
Location: SF Bay Area
Car Model: 67 dart 2 door hardtop
A few notes on the dual webers.

You must use a fuel pressure regulator to keep the fuel pressure down to 3-4 psi, as the Webers will flood with stock (6-9 psi) pressure. I used the Holley regulator, it works fine.

Also, you don't need the adaptor from Tom Langdon for the two barrel carbs, Offy will mill their manifold for you to match the Weber two barrels. You can get the phenolic gaskets (cheap) from the UK at: fastroadcars.com, they are about $10 each, see: http://www.fastroadcars.co.uk/shop/inde ... ductId=101.

Fastroadcars.com also have complete rebuild kits for these carbs. These carbs were originally used on Ford Fiestas (1.3 or 1.6 liter engine) back in the 1980's, so two of them are perfect for 225 cu in. Tom uses them for 230 straight six chevy engines and they work great (his website also has a nice linkage kit to help build the linkage). I fabricated a couple mounts by cutting some heavy duty 4" door hinges, and I made a heavy duty bracket for the throttle cable and (aftermarket) kickdown cable. It all fit together nicely, note the throttle cable and kickdown are mounted in the center of the throttle linkage rod, so as to distribute the torque. I used only one return spring, as two were too strong. The factory throttle cable was the perfect length for my bracket, it is 46 years old and works great.

I'd be happy to share more info on how I fabricated the pieces.

bg


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