If he's running IE and the default security settings/permissions are set to med-high he won't be able to view some external jpeg content and just get the box with the red x in it. I use firefox and can view it fine.

-D.Idiot

The Chrysler flatheads owners have options for at least two adapters to use GM automatics like the 200R4. one of them from Wilcap. They can also use the Mopar 904. That's probably because the old Fluid Drives are much worse than a 904, and many of the owners are getting up in years.

Until a couple years ago the Chrysler flathead owners had an option for the Laycock de Normanville (similar to Gear Vendors) adapted by Dennis Gronan. The Gear Vendors clone was $1,300 including a custom cross member for Dodge trucks - less without the cross membr, but too few ordered the units, which were produced for about a decade. Apparently most salvage yard Volvo units will work when a 3rd party adapter is used to divorce the O/D unit, but that machined casting costs about $900 - it doesn't appear to be complex. If someone could make that adapter for less then that this might not be another way. Mr Gronan is a machinist and was able to manage the conversion himself.

Well, so far no one has stepped up to express interest in another wilcap run, and no one has offered one for sale. I am getting tired of chasing unicorns. I have contacted Gear Vendors, and am seriously considering this approach. It is expensive, but it is available now, and requires very little custom work. The big sell for me is they have developed an electronic control which will allow it to operate automatically as a 4 speed over drive(behind a 904) or as a manually shifted six speed gear splitter. The OD ratio is .78 which is almost exactly what my T-5 has. Their electronic control has a speed sensor built in, and the speedo piggy back out of that. I suspect I can figure a way to have a lock up torque converter engage.

So maybe I am seeming crazy for switching gears, (so to speak) , but except for the money, the Gear Vendors unit has my vote right now.

Sam

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Take your time and look for a used Gear Venders. Used G/V show up now and then for big savings. They shouldn't wear out, but there are some things that can damage them, especially backing up with the unit engaged. These are supposed to be easy to overhaul.

The $900 adapter thingie for the Volvo O/D is an end casting that bolts on to a Pick N Pull O/D converting it into basically a Gear Venders. On various forums somebody thinks that they could make an adapter - I'm sure they could, but nobody goes through with it. The demand for the divorced conversions is so small that the per unit price is ridiculous. The member on this forum with a foundry could probably make the Laycock adapter, but as Dennis Gronan learned, it is a labor of love to make parts and fellow forum members don't often come through - we have good intentions, but many of us lack money and the time. Although the $3,000 G/V comes with a warranty, its basically a 1970s Volvo unit. I'd like one for my '47 Dodge truck with flathead, as those trucks cruise at about 45 to 50 MPH with OEM gearing.

The divorced Laycok adapter looks like this one, this is for a GM TH-350 transsmission. I think if you knew how to use a lathe, you could create a weldment instead of casting. The price on these adapters is silly, but maybe there is more to it than it looks. Someone like Mr Gronan would know the details : http://tinyurl.com/mm8kmdp

Tim, according to what I am reading now, the electronic controls they have developed leave all the engaging and dis-engaging out of the hands of the user, at least in what they call automatic mode. The speed sensor that piggy backs with the speedo output determines under what conditions it will engage. You do not do this manually any more. If this is true, then one cannot back one up while engaged any more. That being said, the tech guy I talked to did say something about a foot switch for something. I am not sure what that is for. From the descriptions I read about how you drive with it, things happen from the electronic controls. More to learn still.

In auto mode it senses load and rpm and speed and makes a choice. They say it drives just like a standard 4 speed OD tranny with no thought on your part, unless you select manual, in which case you shift through the gears with your shifter. It sounded as if in this mode it will chose high or low range in one gear, the choice again depending on rpm and load. And when you shift up it starts the new gear in the low range. In essence it will drive like a 6 speed auto with manual shift. maybe the foot pedal is used in this mode. Anyway, this sounds worth the price of admission to me. I will find out more about this before I buy, but right now this feature is what sets it apart from others. Also that it shifts under load, which many others will not do.

It will take awhile to save the money, so if a complete kit shows upwhich is cheaper, of course I will buy it. But it would have to be complete, recent enough to have the electronics, and be for a 904. I really don't wish to exercise too much creativity here and end up with a kludged up product that only does half of what a new one will do.

Sam

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I respect the fact that the 200r4 is a compact, strong , hydraulically shifted trans, but, they must be getting pretty old now? Electronic trans have been around for well over 20 years now. My point is, there are electronic shifted gm trans with bolt on bellhousings and aftermarket controllers to suit. It's a lot of work either way you do it, so why not go for something that you can fine tune shift points etc etc?

Well, That is a thought. Ever expanding possibilities.

Sam

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200 is hydraulically controlled, except for LU.

Sam, I have seriously considered using a LU 904 with a GV overdrive, and I think that should be a very nice setup all around.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

Thanks Lou, Your endorsement is worth a lot. Lonnie is trying to scare me away from the GV OD. That is no surprise I guess. One of the earmarks of your projects is that you seldom ( maybe never) spend money on things you don't really need, and yet they always work. You always seem to figure out WHERE to spend money on a project, and the truly important things you seldom go cut-rate on.

The one possible exception to that is your paint,which some would consider a luxury, always looks good once done. Of course I am on board with that one too.

Sam

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Does the gear vendor fit in the tunnel?

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!

12.70 @ 104.6

This is just my opinion, but replacing an adapter with a bellhousing and adapter seems counter productive. In my experience more parts mean more potential problems.

As far as the GV, the guy that built the big ci Slant that Rick ended up with put one in a 2nd gen Barracuda. If he did it it must have fit fairly easily.

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Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

This is just my opinion, but replacing an adapter with a bellhousing and adapter seems counter productive. In my experience more parts mean more potential problems.

As far as the GV, the guy that built the big ci Slant that Rick ended up with put one in a 2nd gen Barracuda. If he did it it must have fit fairly easily.

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Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

I've already cut that tunnel up for the t-5. I'll do what it takes to make it work. As with the t-5 I will make sure the output shaft ends up right where it needs to be.
Sam

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Well, sort of... they're both electrically-controlled planetary gearsets, of a very similar design... would love to see a side-by-side comparison. I strongly suspect the GearVendors unit is a whole lot beefier:

Back in the day, it was pretty well accepted that a Volvo 240 OD unit would last a great deal longer if shifted with clutch in (as the owner's manual recommends), or at least let up on the throttle while hitting the button. The car will put up with a full-throttle shift, but in my opinion it didn't sound terribly happy doing it -- the shift transition was lengthy enough that I could imagine friction surfaces burning -- especially with the added power in the Turbo version of that car (although not experiencing throttle lag was pretty cool.) I was smart enough not to do it often.

In contrast, Gear Vendors advertises their unit for motorhomes and other things substantially heavier than a 3000 lb Volvo... and they loudly and proudly tout the joy of full-throttle shifting in a musclecar. (!) They offer a 2yr unlimited horsepower warranty (they say they're confident you'll hurt your main trans before you ever hurt their overdrive), and they have used it in cars with 2000hp.

Not to say that the Volvo unit wouldn't be strong enough for a Dart. Not sure whether a "divorced" solution would fit in the tunnel... I have considered modifying the tail section of a trans in order to get it closer to the bellhousing, where the tunnel is a tad larger. I do recall that the Volvo OD uses the same transmission fluid as the main gearbox-- so to graft it to a different tranny would require not only modifications to the housing but welding to the output shaft as well (with whatever alignment techniques that entails.) Granted, it's a pretty interesting idea. I gave it some serious thought, at one time, in a desire to keep a 3-on-the-tree linkage. Never got beyond the thought stage.

- Erik

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Lots of early Valiants and Barracudas have crossed my path.
Also a handful of other toys for variety now and then.

I had 3 Volvo M146 overdrive units that I eventually sold off, they were too complicated to adapt to a 904/727 without expensive machining, with costs approaching the price of a new Gear Vendors unit.

Volvo used a M41 gearbox/overdrive unit in P1800, Amazon and some 140s, the M410 in P1800S and 164, and the M146 in the 200-series cars.

According to some Volvo manuals, their overdrive unit was limited to a constantly applied torque of 230-260 ft/bls, depending on application.

The Laycock de Normanville overdrive unit was used by many british car manufacturers, Jaguar, Austin Healy, Alpine, Hillman, Triumph, MG and others. The french-built Facel-Vega III, used it too, unfortunately not those lovely big Facels with a Chrysler V8, but the little Facel two-seater with a Volvo B18 engine.

The Gear Vendors models are built over the same design, originally named de Normanville epicyclic gearbox, but they are designed to take much higher torque, like those used in big, heavy BB-powered motorhomes, as mpgFanatic points out in his post above.

Based on personal experience, I would recommend anyone not having an advanced machine shop of their own, to forget the use of a Volvo overdrive unit with a SL6.

Olaf

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Aspenized