Just thinking ahead......I will go in this A.M and do a check on this oil passage to see if the head gasket was installed properly, if I am understanding the other topic correctly I will remove the rear most bolt and stick a coat hanger down the hole and check for an obstruction.

If it only goes down so far ( not far enough ) than the head gasket is installed improperly, I can easily gauge the distance from top of rocker shaft to the bottom of the head so no issue there.

If the head gasket is installed properly than my hanger will go much further down until it reaches the cam bearing, sound correct?

I am assuming there will be no way of seeing if cam bearing was installed correctly without pulling engine again and removing rear cam bearing plug, does all of this sound right?

Assuming it might only be an incorrectly installed head gasket can I remove the head gasket and re-install in the correct manner? Can I re-use same gasket, I would assume so since the engine has not been run.

Sorry DI, but there is no groove in the rear cam bearing for the slant six. The groove is on the cam only. In the cam bearing sets the groove bearing goes in the number one position. I don't have any idea where this wrong info came from, but it has been brought up many times.

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225

1930, you are getting ahead of your self. First remove the oil filter, and pack some vasoline down in the oil passage in the filter base of the oil pump. Turn the engine by hand, if necessary to rotate the pump, so you can get enough vasoline in the pump gears. Then spin the engine with the starter and see if you get oil out of the pump (oil in the pan and filter off). If no oil, then the problem is either the oil pump (possibly the pressure relief valve in the pump) or the oil pickup tube in the pan (possible wrong position or cracked and sucking air). If you get oil at the pump, then reinstall the filter, and hook up a pressure gauge at the pressure port on the pump, see what pressure you have. If more then 20 lbs at cranking, you need to continue on to other things. If less then 20 lbs cranking, the problem is either the previously mentioned things, or a oil system leak ( galley plug left out, etc.).

PS: You can call me again, today. Will not be available from about 9:30 am to about 10:30 am.

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225

At the shop here now, I can see that I cannot just stick a hanger down the rearmost rocker shaft bolt hole because the head bolt will stop it from going at least as far down as the bottom of the head.

I have brought my spare head here with me and thats what helped me see how things have to go so I guess I will remove that one head bolt and see if I can go all the way thru.

Thanks, I dont know how much time I am going to have too dicker around with this today, I have a paying job that needs to get done so we can have some sort of Christmas at the house.

Will keep on it this morning for sure though.

On the stockers, yes...some of the aftermarket hydro cam blanks are coming without the groove causing machinists to assume that the grooved bearing goes in the rear most cam journal (which is wrong, and most machinist don't want to groove the cam bearing by hand either, assuming that they got lazy and bought the Fed Mog 1454 bearing set, which is not right either, if he got a melling replacement cam in the rebuild kit they come grooved). On my last set of OCG cams the blanks had to be grooved by hand on request (and a little extra $$, they had only new hydro blanks on the shelf) if I wanted the rear journal grooved... So I guess buyer beware...

-D.Idiot

At this point I have been told by the machinest not too touch a thing, he will come over too the shop and take care of it. If I screw with it than I will be only giving him fuel to say I messed things up so at this point I am at his mercy for whenever he decides to fix his problem.

I am still curious though on some questions posted above if someone would take the time to answer. Thanks and will keep this up-dated as I know something

What questions do you still need answered?

I can tell you that if you put oil in at the sending unit location and didn't destroy the anti-drainback valve in the oil filter there will be little oil going from your tank backward into the filter.

If the engine was assembled with the right parts (grooved rear cam journal) and the rear cam bearing is installed properly (you can only see this with the camshaft out) oil would have filled the rocker shaft when the oil tank pressurized the engine.

The head gasket can't be installed incorrectly without it being painfully obvious.

This thread is frustrating to me. You state that you should have done this build yourself yet show serious gaps in your understanding of slant six architecture.

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Joshua

OK. In slant six engines, the oil goes from the sump, to the pump, to the filter, and then to the oil feed gallery. The oil feed gallery directs the oil to (among other places) the rearmost cam bearing. There are two holes in the rearmost cam bearing: one on the bottom and one on the top. The bottom hole in the cam bearing is supposed to align with a hole that goes into the oil feed gallery. The top hole in the rearmost cam bearing aligns with a hole in the block that passes into the oil feed hop for the cylinder head. The oil feed hole in the cylinder head goes up through the rearmost rocker shaft bolt hole. Oil flows from the rearmost rocker shaft bolt hole into the rocker arm shaft and then out into the rocker arms. Solid lifter rock arms let the oil dribble out the front of the rockers and then down into the sump. hydraulic lifter rocker arms dribble some oil out the tips of the rockers but the rest down the hollow pushrods, into the lifters, and then into the sump.

On the solid lifter motors the oil comes out of the bottom hole on the rearmost cam bearing and then passes through a hole drilled through the rearmost cam journal. This is how the oil is fed to the head. On hydraulic lifter slant sixes the rearmost cam journal has a groove running the entire circumference of the cam. This allows full oil flow at all times.

You say that using your oil pressure tank you were able to fill the oil filter, but go no oil flow to the head. To me, this suggests a blockage at the rearmost cam journal.. This blockage could be caused by one of several situations:

(1) all correct hydraulic lifter parts used, but the cam bearing is not priorly aligned with the holes in the block

(2) a solid lifter camshaft with a hole and not the groove in the cam journal. If the hole in the cam was not aligned exactly with the holes in the journal then very little oil would flow to the head. however, if you cranked the engine and still got no oil flow to the head then I doubt this is the situation.

(3) a solid lifter camshaft with the rear cam bearing misaligned. If the rear cam bearing is misaligned than no oil will flow to the head no matter what.

If I were you, I would make the machinist pull the engine and verify that the rear cam bearing was installed correctly and that the correct grooved cam was used.

Hopefully this answers the questions you were hoping to have answered.

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

Doc provided the mechanical lifter oiling system diagram, here is the hydraulic lifter oiling system diagram:

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

Ok thanks guys, I am wondering how the oil gets past that lower rearmost head bolt up into the last rocker arm stud, I can see how it gets around the last bolt on rocker arm stud but again cant see how it would get around that head bolt.

Curious is all, I am sure there is a way but dont see it.

If the engine has too be pulled than I will once again pull the cab/front sheet metal as a unit, I sprayed it as an assembled unit so that the hardware would be in place and it would all look good.

There is no chance the machinest will pull it anyway and if he did than he would make a mess of things.

Also here are some more questions.

1- Ok so is it possible that this valve could be stuck, I know you say that it will not restrict ALL oil but can I remove this hex head bolt, whatever is underneath it ( assuming some sort of spring/plunger deal ) put the hex bolt back in and then crank engine without the opportunity for this valve to restrict anything??

2- It sounds like the cam does not need to be spinning in order for oil too get around it and up into the top end, is this correct ?

3- Ok so no groove but instead oil holes in the rear cam bearing........the groove is in the cam, if the groove is in the cam and the groove is the entire circumference of the cam than I guess it would not need too be spinning.

4- Are the lifters fed oil in any other way other than the oil dribbling down the pushrods?

Also D.I mentioned this above...........On the stockers, yes...some of the aftermarket hydro cam blanks are coming without the groove causing machinists to assume that the grooved bearing goes in the rear most cam journal (which is wrong, and most machinist don't want to groove the cam bearing by hand either, assuming that they got lazy and bought the Fed Mog 1454 bearing set, which is not right either, if he got a melling replacement cam in the rebuild kit they come grooved). On my last set of OCG cams the blanks had to be grooved by hand on request (and a little extra $$, they had only new hydro blanks on the shelf) if I wanted the rear journal grooved... So I guess buyer beware... ...............

I am pretty sure at this point that machinest would have purchased whatever he could get his hands on for a less than reasonable price so maybe I need to be concerned with this.

If I understand what he is saying some aftermarket cams do not come with the groove, I dont see how they would not come with a groove if this is how oil is fed too top end??

But then mentions grooving the cam bearing so I am a little confused


OK just to clarify and simplify for me it sounds like there is a grooved cam bearing, this grooved cam bearing would go in the front or first cam bearing hole...........there is also a specific cam bearing with oil holes, this cam bearing would go in the rear most position in the block.

The cam should have come grooved in the rear most bearing point but sometimes they do not ( for an un-known reason too me )

Does this sound right?

I just spent 30 minutes answering your question in detail, but my wi-fi crapped out and I lost it all.

In your hydraulic lifter motor you should have a rear cam bearing with no groove and a cam with a groove in the rearmost cam bearing. If you do not have that then you have the wrong parts.

The rearmost cam bearing must be aligned with the oil passage holes in the block. It the holes aren't lined up then you have no oil flow.

You must pull the motor to check the rear cam bearing. The cam must come out and the rear cam gallery plug must be removed. The rear cam gallery plug is hidden by the transmission bellhousing when the motor is bolted to the trans.

The oil passage does not go through any head bolt passage. The oil passage is completely independent of any head bolt passage.

The oil pressure relief valve can be disassembled and cleaned. See HERE and HERE.

_________________
Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

Trust me I know how frustratig that can be, if you can find the time I would very much like to hear your detailed response to my questions.

I do not see how I can be mistaken in that the hole that feeds oil into the rocker shaft that is down in the head also mingles with that head bolt......I know you know this much better than I do though so again I will have a look at that spare head and see where or why I am mistaken. Thanks