JC- 39 PSI at idle and 40 PSI at speed are perfectly fine oil pressures. The slant will live happily at 5 PSI at idle (the lower limit for the hydraulic lifter motors as per the factory manual) and as low as 20-25 PSI cruising.

The 351W in my Ford van has lived happily for a decade with 50 PSI at speed and 20 PSI at idle. I believe a slant would be just as happy.

Return the pump and save yourself the trouble of switching it out.

What symptoms of poor running is the engine displaying and why do you believe they are related to your oil pressure? gain, 39-40 PSI is actually very good oil pressure.

Hey Reed,
The two Dodge Manuals that I have say that 55 PSI is specified. Am not being recalcitrant, but for years, Lorrie has always put up 55 PSI at speed and 50 PSI at idle. And all other problems aside, she has always been happy doing that.
The Slant Six has that reputation. Still, am concerned for the girl. Want to do everything that can be done to keep her percolating.
Ms. American 3.14159 puts up 80 PSI at Fast Idle when started and by the time she is warmed up and off the Choke she is idling at 65 PSI, but that's due to the Police Interceptor Oil Pump.
Already have the OLD Oil Pump extracted. It took about an hour to get the six Bolts out and a big Screw Driver to pry it loose. Just a bit of criticism here. Two of the Bolt Heads are so close to the adjacent casting that a Wrench barely fits on to them. The Engineers should have either designed a bit of a relief around the Bolt Head, or used a Bolt with a wider Hex. Still, it wasn't all that difficult to finally get them out. The NEW Oil Pump only has five Bolts, and wouldn't you know it, the Bolt that they left out was the easiest one to access.
It feels like the Crank Shaft is trying to gall in the Rod Bearings. It feels like it is dragging and the RPMs drop slightly when it happens. We'll be going along and it kind of does a soft hesitation, like it's not getting enough lubrication.
Because it wasn't doing the dragging/soft hesitating when the Oil Pressure was up at 55 PSI and it started doing that just prior to my noticing that the Oil Pressure had dropped and wouldn't go up over 40 PSI. In fact, at one point just as we were pulling into our driveway, the dragging got so heavy that it killed the Engine and the Starter wasn't strong enough to restart it. Had the Starter rebuilt and now it is strong enough to overcome the dragging. But it just doesn't "feel" right to me.
Well, it would be as much trouble to put the OLD Pump back in, and the NEW Pump is already on its way.

If after putting the NEW Oil Pump in, the PSI doesn't go up to 55 PSI again, am thinking that the next thing to check is to see if the Oil Pick Up Tube got vibrated loose when the U-Joint came apart the day before Christmas.

Have looked in the Dodge Manuals about how to remove the Oil Pan and the process that they describe is quite protracted. Have looked at Lorrie's Oil Pan and it wouldn't be hard to take down as there is nothing in the way of it. Just drain the Oil and take out the
Bolts and it would come right down. Would need to get a new Gasket for it.

Reed, I've got to keep Lorrie up and running. I live alone, have no family, have few friends because of living a bubble existence due to this auto-immune Liver issue with which I have been coping since 1998.

My neighbor Robert has helped get me out and about to do errands when Ms. American and Lorrie were neither one able to function, but now he is having problems with transportation. We're trying at this time to get his Charging System back up and running on his Dodge Van. His wife is borrowing a friends pick-up truck just to get back and forth to and from work. We're getting his Alternator back after being rebuilt. It'll be here Friday.

I've got to have reliable transportation and this NEW Oil Pump, if it solves the low Oil Pressure is just now getting to the point where the bugs have been worked out. I don't want to take any chances with Lorrie. It's best that we put the NEW Oil Pump on if for no other reason than insurance.

Just a note about loss of Oil when removing the Oil Pump. The only lubricant that was lost was that which was in the Pump. One does NOT have to drain the Oil Pan to remove the Oil Pump. It is well above the Oil Level in the Engine.

The Dodge Manuals both say to prime the Oil Pump before installing it. Don't know what THAT means exactly. It doesn't seem possible that Oil put into it will stay in the Pump without leaking out while it is put back into position. What do you know about THAT subject?

Anyway, the NEW Oil Pump will be here tomorrow evening and will be installed on Friday. Will let you know how it goes.

Thanks for the input.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

OK, understood. I am just saying that I would be amazed if any worn in and daily driver engine maintained 50 PSI at idle. In fact, if I had a vehicle that had 50 PSI at idle when hot I would be worried that the pressure relief valve on the pump had failed or some other restriction in the oiling system was causing the oil pressure to be too high.

Good luck!

I do have to agree with the others on here that replacing the pump would be pretty much pointless. 40psi is WAAY more than enough supply for an engine, however volume may be a whole different issue with your application... It IS possible to have good pressure, but the volume is low (usually the case when running heavy oil in it).

How many miles are on her? Old tired engines tend to have a little lower pressure due to the increased clearance in all of the moving internals. (a reason most people jump on thicker oils)...

Using mine as an example, the engine is only about 10k miles old, and I did opt for the high volume Melling pump (before I found this site and all the great information), and fears set aside of spinning bearings or breaking the gear off (original standard pump on it did this) I have been running it with no issues. I do run a 10w-30 synthetic in winter and a 10w-40 synthetic in the summer, and i see 50 psi at idle, and a steady 50 at all other RPM ranges...

The hesitation your feeling is really related to something else, you would have to have bad bearings and almost 0 oil supply in order for the friction of the engine to cause that much drag... Something that CAN NOT be fixed by an extra 5-10 psi of oil pressure...

_________________
"if it aint broke, fix it till it is"
78 Plymouth Volare Super Six wagon
89 Volkswagen Golf GTI 16v
92 Chevrolet K1500 5.7
98 Ford Escort ZX2 zetech

I agree with all the above. It is not an oil pump issue.

Does Lorie have an automatic?
or stick?

If an automatic, a shot torque converter can provide drag.
If a stick a mis adjusted clutch can do the same thing.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

I would not install a new oil pump as the gear is likely softer than the original and may not survive wearing in on the old cam. If that's the case you'll be pulling the cam and the oil pump.

You thought you had a certain oil pressure number, but found out it's a little lower. Not a big deal. That's what you get from cheap, mass produced gauges.

I agree that the lack of pep and drag is likely a transmission issue.

_________________
Joshua

Hey Reed,
I knew you would understand.
Lorrie has always had good Oil Pressure.
The Pressure Relief Valve was taken out a few days ago and checked. It was clean and moved freely in its bore.
Was never too worried that the Oil Pressure Gauge said that it was at 55 PSI because the Dodge Manuals said that THAT was what it was supposed to be.

Checked this morning to see if the passage that permits the Oil Pressure to go through the Tube to the Oil Pressure Gauge was clear of obstructions and it was. Am thinking that this is just a case of the Oil Pump just wearing out because of old age. Can sympathize with that as I'll be seventy-five the end of this month.


Thanks. Am going to be spending the day preparing for the installation of the NEW Oil Pump. Have to clean the surface where the Oil Pump Gasket goes. The fortunate thing is that unlike a car, Lorrie, being a truck, this location is readily and easily accessible with very few things near it to hinder the process.

Nonetheless, the saga continues. Will keep you updated about the progress.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Mr. OSR,
Am running 10W30 Valvoline. And it is perfectly clean. Back when this started, thought maybe that the Oil Passages could maybe have some build up, so 1.5 ounces per quart (and Lorrie takes 5.5 quarts of Oil) of Seafoam was added to the Oil. It didn't seem to make any difference.
Rebuilt the might 225 Slant Six in 1984 and put in a NEW Stewart Warner Speedometer at that time. Right now It has less than 26,000 miles on the Odometer.
Well, Lorrie's Engine is forty-seven years old, but it is far from being tired. But something that has always concerned me since doing the rebuild in 1984. I didn't know about "Bearing Crush" when installing the Bearing between the Rods and the Crank Shaft. I just installed them and torqued them to spec. Found later that they should have been "crushed". I just didn't know that at the time.
Checked the Gear on the Oil Pump. It shows a little shiny spot where the Cam Gear contacts it and it is right in the middle of the gear. Lorrie is driven VERY gently. She is a big, gentle old thing and is never asked to anything that puts any stress on her.
Am running 10W30 Valvoline, and her PSI has been (up until this episode) been pretty much the same as what you describe.
And that is something that has me concerned, as you might well imagine. After installing this NEW Oil Pump (which will happen tomorrow) we will see.

Am expecting to see the PSI return to 55 as there is nothing between the Pressure Chamber in the Oil Pump and the Oil Pressure Gauge. If the Oil Pump is putting up 55 PSI it should show on the Gauge. If the pressure is NOT back at 55 PSI then it is obviously going somewhere. Will have to find out where, but first have to see if maybe the OLD Oil Pump had just worn out.

Anyway, thanks for the very nice response. Hope this finds YOU doing well.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Mr. AT,
Well, we are deep into replacing the Oil Pump already. Will know tomorrow if it is an Oil Pump issue for sure.
Her Warranty Plate says that she has an A727 Torqueflite, but that is in question for a number of reasons. First there is an access hole in the Transmission Tunnel which lets one set the Timing from Timing marks on the Transmission which has a corresponding Access Port at that location. The present Transmission doesn't have THAT Access Port which permits suspicion that while being used by the USPS in Houston, that the Transmission was replaced. Secondly, an A727 takes sixteen quarts of ATF. Lorrie's present Transmission doesn't take anywhere near sixteen quarts. But the Transmission seems to be in good shape. It doesn't leak. It shifts normally. And as previously stated, Lorrie is driven VERY gently.
If this condition continues after the installation of the NEW Oil Pump, further investigation will have to be pursued.

Will keep you updated.

Hope YOU are well..

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Mr. JS,
Alas, am already committed to installing the NEW Oil Pump. Am hoping that what you propose will not be the case.
All this time, I have been mis-reading the Oil Pressure Gauge. Had been thinking that it was at 65 PSI when it was really at 55 PSI. But just recently the Oil Pressure Gauge started showing that it was at no more than 40 PSI. That, and the occasional dragging of the Engine and the occasional dying of the Engine is what led me to suspect first the OLD Oil Pressure Gauge, which was "glitchy" in that it would stick at 25 PSI and when tapped on would go up to 38 PSI, which the NEW Gauge doesn't do. After installing a NEW Oil Pressure Gauge, the glitchiness went away, but the NEW Gauge also showed only 38 PSI at idle.
As mentioned previously, this NEW Gauge is a Stewart Warner SW82406, which is an EXACT replacement of the OLD Gauge. It does say on the package that it was "Assembled in Mexico". In the best of all worlds, everything would be perfect. Alas.
There is no lack of pep. Although it is not done often, if perhaps Lorrie's Acceleration Pedal is floor-boarded, the Engine pulls strongly and the Transmission shifts smartly.
Will have to wait and see. Will know tomorrow whether the installation of the NEW Oil Pump solves the problem.

Will keep the updates coming here.

Anyway, thanks for the response.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Now we know why there were no numbers on the factory gauges, and they eventually went to idiot lights. IMHO, 15lbs at idle, and 40 cruise is plenty. If your engine is not making noise, stop worrying about the bearings. This coming from a notorious paranoid.

Sam

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Hey Mr. SM,
Your post prompted me to go dig out Lorrie's OLD Stock Instrument Panel. It has a idiot light instead of an Oil Pressure Gauge. And BTW, it has 94,373.0 miles on the Odometer. And Lorrie has almost 26,000 on her Stewart Warner Speedometer Odometer which was put in when her mighty 225 Slant Six Engine was rebuilt in 1984. That would be 120,373 total miles on her, unless the 94,373 is the second time around. Nonetheless, there is less than 26,000 on this rebuild.
You're saying that they did this to keep people from worrying about low Oil Pressure? In Lorrie's case, it's too late!

I'm used to seeing 55 on the SW OPG and it has been like that since 1984, though between 1996 and 2012 Lorrie sat in the drive way in a coma. She has been up and running since October of 2012 and was putting up 55 PSI up until a couple of weeks ago.
(SIGH) If this NEW Oil Pump doesn't put out more than 40 PSI, I guess I'm going to have take your counsel, but Lorrie has NOT been happy since the day before last Christmas when she dropped her rear U-Joint. She took quite a shaking before she got stopped.

There is also another factor here that might be salient. My father was a Frantz Oil Cleaner Distributor and he put a Frantz Oil Cleaner on Lorrie in 1975. It is a by-pass Filter and the Element Canister gets hot from the Oil being pumped through it. The last time Lorrie was out and about (last Monday), that Element Canister didn't get hot.

The last time that she was run (yesterday), a NEW Element was put into the Canister. After running the Engine to test the NEW SW OPG, the Element was checked to see if it had gotten any Oil pumped through it. It was saturated with Oil as it should have been.
Know what you mean. I too am somewhat paranoid. But just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean that something isn't wrong with Lorrie.

Anyway, am in the process of cleaning up the OLD Oil Pump. If the NEW OP doesn't put up more pressure than the OLD one, then I'll have a spare OP should it ever be needed. Still, I would REALLY like to find out WHERE the Oil Pressure went. If it isn't that the OLD OP just wore out, then in light of the shaking Lorre took when the U-Joint failed, it might be that something happened to the Oil Pump Pick Up Tube in the Crank Case.

BTW, another thing that struck me as strange is that after the Engine has run and been shut down, I have checked the Oil Level, and since this Oil Pressure situation began, when I pull the Dip Stick, there is oil about half way up it. I wipe it off and put it back in and pull it back out and the Oil Level is between the "Add A Quart" and the "Full" Mark.

I don't ever recall the Oil ever coming up the Dip Stick Tube like that. What would YOU make of THAT symptom?

Anyway, thanks for the advice and reassurance. It hasn't dampened my trepidation though. I'd like to see Lorrie's NEW SW OPG registering 55 PSI after the NEW OP is installed.

Will keep the updates coming.

Hope YOU are well.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Have the Oil Pump Gasket Surface on Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six Block cleaned.

Have the Bolts and Washers cleaned.

Have the fittings for the Oil Pressure Gauge Tube cleaned.

The NEW Oil Pump will be here this evening.

Will install it tomorrow.

Is there usually any problem getting the Gear on the Pump to mesh with the Gear on the Cam Shaft when installing or is this about the same as when installing a Distributor? They both are driven by the same Cam Gear.

Will update when something happens.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Don't forget to prime the oil pump with vaseline and/or pouring oil down the holes around the standpipe.

Hey Reed,
When you say "Standpipe", do you mean the Pipe that feeds the Oil Filter?

If you do, then that is no problem.

Have mentioned previously that Lorrie has a Frantz Oil Cleaner System and there is an Adapter Plate that fits onto the Oil Pump in place of the standard Oil Filter. From that Adapter the Oil goes to the Frantz System where it goes through the Filter Element and is returned from there to a hose going to the Oil Pan.

Am going to have to hook up the Adapter BEFORE installing the OP as there is a hose that can't be removed because of the type of Clamp that is on it. BUT Oil can be poured down that hose from the Frantz Unit. Just went out and checked. That Oil Circuit is open from the Frantz Unit to the Adapter Plate. AND where the Adapter Plate attaches to the OP (the Standpipe?) to down inside the OP is also open.

So what will happen is that the Adapter Plate will be attached to the OP. The OP will then be installed on the Block. Then Oil can be poured into the Frantz Unit and it will go down inside the pump.

Am certain that THAT will suffice to accomplish the "priming" of the Oil Pump.

What do YOU think?

Anyway, thanks for the "heads up".

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor