Hi,

Car is a 67 VC Valiant, fitted with a new battery. Has an Email style (35amp?) alternator.

I charged the battery fully (car had been sitting quite a while, and I assumed this time frame is why the battery died ~6 months).

Was able to drive the car for 2 - 3 hours, stop and start a few times.

Final drive, I noticed the indicators stopped working. Pulled over, ended up turning the car off and it wouldn't turn over, made the clicking which I am too familiar with meaning the battery is dead (battery light on battery also shows it's dead).

Ammeter in car is closer to discharge than to charge. probably sitting halfway between center and the D.

I jump started the car, was able to drive home, turned the car off in my garage and immediately wouldn't turn on.

I believe the charging circuit somewhere is faulty - Is this the voltage regulator, the wiring, the alternator and the battery?

I have a voltmeter/ammeter, what I don't have is the majority of my tools, I have a swiss army knife.

What test can I do to troubleshoot.

I'm not sure what tests to do to determine if there is charging being experienced by the battery, or if the alternator is even providing power, or if the voltage regulator is working correctly.

Thankyou for reading! And thankyou for any help,

Cheers,

Ben

Old battery or one that has been discharged from sitting around unused will lose its ability to hold and or take a charge. Take the battery to an auto parts store and have it tested.

Second suspect would be voltage regulator. Make sure it has no voltage drop between its base and negative battery terminal; this assuming you can substitute a fully charged battery for testing.

Third suspect would be alternator’s output. An auto parts store should be able to test it for you.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

First recharge the battery overnight. If good, it will read around 12.6 or 12.7 volts after a good charge. If much lower (like 12.3) then let it sit and watch the meter; if it drops and drops when the charger is disconnected, then a cell is bad or partly shorted. If it sets at the lower voltage, then a cell is weak and just not taking a charge. Either way, time for a new battery.

BTW, if there is an indication of a shorted cell (like the voltage never will hold above 12 volts but always drops) then there is a chance to bring it back. Get a flat board and hold the battery upside down and tap it some on the board; it may jar loose some crud sutck between plates that is shorting the cell. Sometimes this helps and sometimes makes it worse, so YMMV.

If battery is OK, then start the engine and verify that the alternator is working. If working, you should measure 13.7 to 14.3 volts at the battery with the engine running at a fast idle. If not, then first check the grounds around the voltage regulator; if there are bad grounds, the VR will not work right. These contacts to chassis need to be scraped clean to bare metal and new bolts, star washers, and nuts used to secure the regulator. Coat these ground connections with some dielectric grease after they are cleaned.

After that, you can test the alternator without the regulator. If this is an alternator with only one small wire in the back of the alternator (this is the filed wire, and is in addition to the large output wire), then disconnct the wire from this terminal and use a jumper to jump from this small terminal to the alternator output stud after the car is started. The voltage on the battery should jump to around 15-16-17 volts at fast idle if the alternator is good. DON'T leave this jumper on for very long, just long enough to do the test.

Let us know how this all turns out.

Charged the battery overnight,

12.6 approx reading - so all good?

"Make sure it has no voltage drop between its base and negative battery terminal; this assuming you can substitute a fully charged battery for testing" - multimeter came up with 0.00 with positive pin on the base/bolts of the regulator, and negative pin on the battery. Shifting the positive pin to the 'Fld" connection a small value which changes somewhere between 0.02 and 0.10 was determined.

THanks for your help!

Sorry for the delayed reply... work, you know. 12.6v is good for a charged battery. The 0 volts between VR case sounds like you have a good ground on the VR; I would still remove and clean up and rebolt the VR with new, clean fasteners, and retry.

The few hundredths of a volt at the field feed from the VR is not right, it should be at least a few volts. However, this needs to be tested with the car started and running. Was it tested in that situation?

Also, check the the voltage into the VR; this is likely a dark blue wire; it should be near to battery voltage with the key in RUN but the engine not started and a bit lower with the engine running. If this is good, then run the alternator test that was laid out in my last paragraph to verify it is good. If good, then replace the VR.

The general suggestions being given are OK, but don't assume the particulars and specifics of the Chrysler-built alternator and its regulator necessarily apply to the Email (=Prestolite Australia) alternator and regulator on the original poster's car.

Brussell: Do you have a factory service manual for your car? You need one! If you haven't got one yet, and your searches for Email system info on the web are fruitless, try searching for Prestolite info.

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Thanks for injecting the note, Dan; I saw 'Valiant' and went to town with Mopar. Per my Prestolite documents from the mid/late 60's, the field is connected and driven in the same fashion as the early Mopar system: one end of the field is grounded in the alternator case and current is driven into the field winding from the regulator. So when the engine is running, the same should apply: a few volts should appear on the field terminal if all is working right and the battery is already carrying a good charge. The field resistances are very similar between the 2 systems. Look like the Prestolite is around 4 ohms field resistance.

Does the regulator in this car have 4 leads, labeled B, I, F, and A? And is there an alternator model number like ALCxxxx or ALD xxxx?

And with a meter, the OP can disconnect the field wire from the alternator and measure the field resistance from that terminal to the alternator case to be sure there is not a short in the field. Not likley, but easy to test. Look for the 4 ohms fled resistance. (It might be a bit higher as I am reverse engineering this 4 ohms from the field current spec at 10V field voltage, and the current will run a bit higher than ohm's law with a good output load connected.)

Thanks for the help so far guys.

I ended up biting the bullet and dropping the car off at the local mechanics... they told me the alternator wasn't working. I thought great, I'll buy a new one, get the original 50 amp birdcage alternator and I'll be right.

I swap it in, I also replace the (what isn't an original external voltage regulator) to find out the fuse in the previous one was broken (my mechanic I guess musn't have even taken the cap off).

Currently the ammeter in the dash still points more at the discharge side over the charge side... I'm not sure whether the gauge is faulty or not, It did move 2 - 3 mm to the Charge side.

I'm going to go for a drive for a hour or so, and hopefully the indicator on the battery tells me it's charged up...

I also noticed a few other things, I have a Max Ellerys FSM, however the wiring diagram isn't the same I've noticed a few changes one of them being:

FSM shows two wires at the windscreen wiper switch, I have three (red green and yellow) - the windscreen wiper (before the switch broke) had two speeds.

The update is, I was able to swap in another ammeter for the dash. As I accelerate the needle moves towards the C, otherwise it moves back towards the middle. Now going to drive around for a while, fill up on petrol and hope the car doesn't run out of battery.

Is it normal for the ammeter to be that responsive?

Further Update/summary.

Thanks to those who have read all my wordy posts, this is where I am at.

The FSM for the car 1966/67 VC valiant, the wiring diagram doesn't suit what is currently on my car, I've noticed a change in wiring for the windscreen wiper knob. As well as some extra wires connecting to the starter motor on the same stud the positive battery terminal does.

My mechanic advised me to change my alternator and said it was broken (Email prestolite alternator, which was not the original). I bought a new bird cage style alternator and swapped it over, one cable for Battery, one for Field.

Also swapped in a new voltage regulator, the one on there included it's one fuse which was broken (I like that my mechanic didn't mention this).

No change on ammeter, still closer to the D side over the C at idle, or under load.

I had a spare amp gauge, so I removed the black and red wires from the back of the current and attached to the spare, (didn't connect to culster panel) and the needle sat dead center between C and D at idle, under load it noticably moved towards the C - I didn't think it was this sensitive ?

I had to go back to the original ammeter I didn't have time to swap them over or connect the two wires (will hopefully swap them over soon). If the ammeter is broken in some way could that be causing the charging issues?

I've been told the battery is good.

The windscreen wiper switch I am currently in the process of replacing the three wires red, green and yellow I have left unplugged. But with them plugged into the original (broken) switch still no difference.

It also seems that the red and yellow wires which connect to the fuse box wich has a 7.5 (red) and a 15 amp fuse (yellow) might be some issue. I had connected up a head unit and with the car switched off my head unit would stay on - I have since removed the head unit. The wires coming out of the red and yellow fuse box do match that of the wiring diagram.

When I start the car, I can remove the key without the car turning off, this is usually a sign of a broken or soon to fail key barrel, is it possible this may be my problem and the car is just always on to some degree?

I'll be the first to admit, I'm far from a sparky, I've done some soldering, and know some of the basics, I'm also hoping I can solve this without paying anyone.

Any ideas?

Well, yes the ammeter can be very sensitive or reactive.
- If the battery is well charged, it will move to the C side a bit if you are driving or at fast idle, and then as you drive it further and the battery gets more charged, the battery current will drop more and more towards the middle.
- If the battery is well discharged, then once you start and are driving or at high idle, the ammeter will move much fruther to the C side, as the discharged battery will accept more current. As it chrages up then the ammeter will gradually move towards the middle.
- If the battery is well charged, and you stop and the car idles, then you may well see the meter move towards the D side, especially with a fan blower on or such. In this situation, the alternator is putting out little or not current, and the well charged battery is discharging current into the system.

Bottom line: With a well charged battery and at idle, the ammeter will normally be on the D side. This is because under any situation, the 'stonger' of the battery or alternator will supply the current to the system. At idle, when the alternator is 'weak', then a 'strong' well charged battery will discharge current (D on the ammeter) t0 supply the load. At fast idle or cruise, when the alternator is 'strong', then it will supply the load AND will charge the battery at the same time (C on the ammeter). When the battery is really well charged, like after a 30-60 minutes drive, then it wil not accept anymore charge and the ammeter wil not show any 'C'.

I hope I answered the question and helped. I am not sure I can help on the rest without the right diagrams.

Thanks for the info nm9stheham, the current ammeter is faulty to some degree I will hopefully swap it out or by pass it for the rest of the trouble shoot. At the moment I drive, and disconnect the battery neg terminal each time I turn the car off.

I noticed an issue a while ago the ACC wire, which as far as I am aware should only supply power when car is switched to on supplies power constantly.

Seems to be a couple of issues, will keep updated, I just haven't had much time to work on the car yet.

CHeers

Sounds like the ACC problem may be related to the 'pulling the key while running' issue....

Update - new key barrel has fixed the ACC issue, the car now longer goes flat overnight etc.

Current issue - Alternator only provides a charge at high revs. Is a new alternator and voltage regulator.

Still going to replace the ammeter in the dash - but I don't think thats the problem.

Will start by confirming whether the supplied parts are faulty or not.

Cheers