So figured I'd start a new thread on my ongoing saga, as we left last time, I had an oil leak from the oil pump which ended up being a blown cover oil seal. I fixed this and got the engine back in pretty easily.
After retiming the sucker I got her to fire up but she began to overheat. To recap, when I rebuilt her I reused the water pump that was there because it had been replaced when I got her. I can see the water in the top of the radiator dipping when I rev her up so it looks like the water is moving through the radiator. I have a new lower radiator hose and a new later model radiator to replace the old 63. The top hose has a spring so I know it is not collapsing, but I need to recheck the bottom more carefully.
The engine has been rebuilt fully, block went to machine shop and was vatted as was the head. Rebuilt head at machine shop. Before I reassembled the block I blew out all passages with air and water same with the head.
I decided to pull the thermostat to see if there was any change in the overheating and it did the same behavior went up to 200 and kept going so I shut it down each time.
I removed the bolts in the head that I used to pull the engine and had coolant come out of the front bolt hole, surprised me because I thought they were closed off.
I plan on further checking today to see if there is a problem with the lower rad hose
and will run water through the top block radiator connection to see if I get water out the bottom the block.
Any other suggestions?
Cheers.

_________________
Psychics will soon lead dogs to your body!

1963 Dodge Dart 270 convertible

BTW. Temp here in Seattle area is around 75-80, valves were cold set to .20 but when I got ready to adjust them hot my feeler gauge slipped off the side of the fender and disappeared in the engine compartment. Had to buy a new gauge and have not gotten valves set yet. Ill recheck timing and post.
John

_________________
Psychics will soon lead dogs to your body!

1963 Dodge Dart 270 convertible

Old radiators and new, cheap radiators don't cool well. You have a new engine with more friction and heat than you did previously. You need a better radiator. And maybe a better fan until the engine is broken in.

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Joshua

Thanks for the feedback Joshua but that poses quite a conundrum for me, in that where does one now determine what is a good radiator and where one finds a good radiator?
Natural assumption would be new radiator would cool well but that does not seem to be the case.

Because of the new radiator I went to electric fans but ended up with a 10" on the front pushing because the original fan would not fit because the new radiator was too far in and did not allow for the fan to fit.

Also my fan spacer for the 63 seems to have gone on walkabout and I have been unable to determine where it is. So if I go back to the original belt driven fan I need to locate a fan spacer. I could also go to a larger electric 16" fan, saw one on ebay which moved 2700-3000 CFM.

BTW Timing was right at 0 and there are no tight valves after the initial adjustment.

Thoughts on radiator?

Anyone have a spare fan spacer or remedy?

Thanks.
John

_________________
Psychics will soon lead dogs to your body!

1963 Dodge Dart 270 convertible

Freshly rebuilt engines do run a bit hotter than old worn-in engines.

My first thoughts would be to verify that the fan is actually functioning as a pusher fan. Often those aftermarket fans can be wired as a pusher or a puller by reversing the wires. I know accidentally wiring the fan backwards is something I would do.

If that checks out, I would suspect the radiator.

Have you verified the temp gauge and sending unit you are using are accurate? Are you using the factory gauge and sending unit or are you using an aftermarket mechanical gauge? Are you using the head you got from me? The later temp sending units have a different OHM rating than the earlier units and will give an incorrect reading if hooked to the older factory gauges.

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

Yep since the fan is in the front I reversed the leads, DC motors are that way. It is pushing right now.

I am using an aftermarket temp gauge sitting in the engine compartment along with my manual oil pressure gauge.

Anyone have a place for a new radiator or a used radiator thats good so I can do some checking?

_________________
Psychics will soon lead dogs to your body!

1963 Dodge Dart 270 convertible

Is this a 63 A body? If so you can put in a nice cross flow radiator from Summit for @ $180. You need to make some hose changes etc.

Here is how I did mine
http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php ... tor#384297

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!

12.70 @ 104.6

Yeah Rick, 63 Dart, Ill check into it further.
Man what a pain, oh to have been collecting more parts for the past 50 years.
Oh yeah its a challenge not a pain,
Uh huh.

_________________
Psychics will soon lead dogs to your body!

1963 Dodge Dart 270 convertible

Just to clarify, it ran at > 200°F with the thermostat housing empty? If that is the case it sounds like a blockage, have you ruled out a blockage in the heater core and lower radiator hose collapsing (it can happen even with the spring)?

Is it possible that there is some air stuck in the system? Might want to try running the engine while the car is inverted (like a steep driveway or with the front up on ramps or something).

On a side note, finally a slanter in my neighborhood! I'm over in Shoreline and it seems like most guys from WA are down south so it cool to see someone else from the Seattle area.

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'66 Dodge Dart

Thanks Josh, I'm in Bothell by the high school and for sure there are not a lot of us in the area but Reed has been most helpful even though he is down in T..

Yes the temp went up after 5 or so minutes or running, I thought it was going to be stable but after sitting at 180 or so a bit it kept creeping up till I turned it off.

I have the heater looped back as I do not have the heater core hooked up, a little problem with the inlet/outlet being malformed when the engine brushed them when taking it out.

I thought about air in the system so I removed the small drain plug on the rear of the engine passenger side and got lots of water out. I could not find any place the air might be. I actually have the front of the car going down right now as the car did nothing when I put it into reverse after reinstalling it. I have not been working on the tranny side yet, thought Id do the engine and then see about motivating the car to move.

I thought that the lower hose might be the problem because I had to get a new one because the lower tube on the newer radiator is at a different angle than the original one. I can check the hose for collapsing tomorrow again as I did not actually feel it when it got hot. To be clear there is no spring in the bottom hose, only the top one.

_________________
Psychics will soon lead dogs to your body!

1963 Dodge Dart 270 convertible

Could the heat valve in the exhaust be stuck closed? or have a big vacuum leak running you super lean? It might be worth checking into as that combo could heat you up in a hurry. Also is your fan all the way to the side of the radiator where your hoses are? If not maybe the hotter water is running down that side and your not picking up much cooling from the fan flow area.
That's all the Dart darts I have to throw, see if any of them stick.

With the heater hose looped, you have hot water bypassing the radiator and not getting any cooling effect from the heater core.


Plug the heater lines and see what happens

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

I don't think the heater core bypassed has anything to do with over heating problem. Yes I have at times run heater when hot weather sets in in Maine ( yea I hear you all laughing out there... Hot in Maine) when running down I-95. It turned out radiator and cooling system was not the problem, but related to A/F mixture and timing.

Where this engine heats up just idling in drive way, I would suspect lower hose collapse due to partially plugged radiator core. If coolant cant flow freely, pump will draw hard enough to collapse hose.

Other reasons for heat buildup when idling is retarded timing, corroded water jacket, and not enough air flow through radiator fins because aftermarket 10" fan can't move enough air to remove heat. Ten inch low cfm fan would be my number one problem choice.

Upper radiator hose won't collapse as coolant is being pushed from head to top of radiator.

One other thought, could be your temperature gage is not reading correctly. Remove sending unit adjacent to upper hose in head, clean any pipe dope, or Teflon tape from its threads so electrons can flow freely to ground.

Also Josh's thoughts on freshly rebuilt, tight, not broken in engine generating excess heat is correct. If once on the road, temperature gage is running to the right of mid gage this maybe normal for the first 300 miles or so. But you wont know this until that transmission is on line.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Hi, having put a new slant motor in a year or two ago I was also anxious regarding initial temps on the motor.

I had a mechanical gauge bunged in with the sender set next to the top of the radiator inlet to pick-up water out of the thermostat and also the original temp gauge. I also use a little pin themometer with the radiator cap off to check temp and visually see thermostat initially opening (see water circulating). So three gauges (4 if you count the thermostat).

I run a mechanical six blade fan, no shroud around 3/4 inch from radiator. I also run a recovery type system.

I also had a garden hose with a spray/mist attachment on hand plus a pedestal fan.

The radiator was used previously and kept the old motor temps at normal operating levels, so had a history of it working properly.

Also added a Tefba radiator filter plus magnet to pick-up any engine/radiator muck that may be around - and believe me there was surprising amount!

The guys have been spot on with there advice in my opinion.

Did the radiator work previously? If not sure get it checked out, tested, rodded, tanks re-installed, temp sender bung added for mech gauge if you desire.

I think the 10" thermo is way too small. Get the biggest one you can fit in there.

Check thermostat works before installing. But install it! Don't run without it.

You said timing was set at 0? Make sure timing, points/elect ign, tappets, carby settings are all in spec.

Install a Tefba filter if you have time and can mange the piping.

Run motor up and check thermostat is opening. If so, top-up water and install radiator cap. You'd like to get as much air out of the system as possible before putting the cap on. If the temp starts rising turn your pedestal fan on and use the garden sprayer to try stabilise the temp. If this works then you know it might be your fan is not up to the task. Or cooling system isn't quite up to the task.

If you are still struggling after all of this, try an in line engine oil cooler from PWR Performance Products (or similar). Hopefully you won't need to go to this extent, but they have worked wonders on engines that typically run hotter than normal.

Good luck!
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Love cruising in a bare metal Val!

Great info guys thanks,

The heat valve is free and does rotate when engine is revved. Engine idles fairly well so I dont suspect a vacuum leak at this point but I will investigate further. I just realized I am running a Stroberg WWV carb I believe it is. It doesnt seem to have a vacuum connection for disty advance. Only seems to have the PCV line connection. I will dig into this further.

Electric fan is at top as far left to inlet side as possible. I plan on putting the stock fan on today if I can get it to fit. The new radiator seems to stick fairly far in and close to the pulley prohibiting the placement of a larger inside fan. I have put the original fan back on and with the old radiator I had 5/8" clearance, the new radiator only allows 5/16" clearance between blades and radiator.

I can try to hookup heater core and see if there is any effect.

The radiator I have installed is brand new out of the box and clean as a whistle inside I see no residue of any sort. I can run water through it to see if it appears to have any blockage. I also have one of the locking radiator caps.

As far as the extra mechanical temp gauge it is coming out of the second hole in the head next to the original sensor which is not hooked up at this time, I will fix wiring to also compare. I can compare it with hand held but once the aftermarket gauge says its hot it will begin to spit out the overflow. The old radiator had no overflow tank but the new one has a connection for one.

I will check how long it takes to heat up also.

I will heat up the thermostat and see where it opens, I noticed I had a 195degree and I have a 160 I will put back in and see how it works after verifying opening temp.

Much to check so thanks. Will post results later today, sposed to be near 90 here in Seattle.

Cheers!

_________________
Psychics will soon lead dogs to your body!

1963 Dodge Dart 270 convertible