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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:39 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:50 pm
Posts: 6291
Location: So California
Car Model: 64 Plymouth Valiant
The max torque spec on a 7/16 - 14 grade 8 bolt is


52 ftlbs lubricated
59 ftlbs, zinc plated and dry / or threadlocker
70 ftlbs, plain and dry

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:47 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:50 pm
Posts: 6291
Location: So California
Car Model: 64 Plymouth Valiant
Lookup

Belleville Spring Lock Washers


McMaster.com


Would the 10mm one work if the hole was slightly enlarged?

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:54 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:50 pm
Posts: 6291
Location: So California
Car Model: 64 Plymouth Valiant
This is interesting.........

http://www.moparchat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104883

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:25 am 
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Guru
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Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2002 11:22 am
Posts: 3740
Location: Sonoma, Calif.
Car Model: Many Darts and a Dacuda
I bet there is something out there that we could use...

What I am looking for is a hardened spring washer with a larger OD...
The factory one is 1.5 inches OD and that size does not completely cover the dowel pin. ( I want to cover up a cam advance shim / off-set bushing)
A 1 3/4 washer OD would do the trick.
DD


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:37 pm 
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SL6 Racer & Moderator
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2002 12:06 pm
Posts: 8749
Location: Silver Springs, Fl.
Car Model:
Quote:
That is the one I called the dealer about. If you look, the date of that post was 7 years ago.

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:34 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 3830
Location: Indianapolis
Car Model:
lots of good info in this post, typical of .org

when I redid the 83 motor, I remember the cam bolt washer having a bow to it,, now I know why.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:11 am 
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Supercharged

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:50 pm
Posts: 6291
Location: So California
Car Model: 64 Plymouth Valiant
Quote:
I bet there is something out there that we could use...

What I am looking for is a hardened spring washer with a larger OD...
The factory one is 1.5 inches OD and that size does not completely cover the dowel pin. ( I want to cover up a cam advance shim / off-set bushing)
A 1 3/4 washer OD would do the trick.
DD
Why not 2 washers............


A large diameter flat one to cover up the dowel pin, then an available curved one to act as the lock washer.


Or...... Aren't some of the front suspension washers large and curved....

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:02 am 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:25 am
Posts: 831
Location: Tompkinsville, KY
Car Model:
A cupped washer does not a spring make. The metal needs to be treated as well.
Kinda like making a coil spring out of a coat hanger.

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O==\=/==O

"A mechanic is Somebody."
- Jim Preston


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:07 am 
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Guru
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Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2002 11:22 am
Posts: 3740
Location: Sonoma, Calif.
Car Model: Many Darts and a Dacuda
Agreed...
My using a 2 washer system with an "unknown" larger flat washer, (that looked like hardened material) combined with a common split washer, led-to my last failure.

As with all engineering challenges, I am sure there are load, tension and yield calculations that could tell us the amount of force needed to prevent loosening but that may-be "over-thinking" it a bit.

Not to say that a two washer system will not work... you just have to be careful that both elements (washers) used are strong (hard) enough to maintain the locking tension needed.
DD


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:05 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Moderator
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:08 am
Posts: 16811
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Car Model:
I would avoid a lock washer as those can "pooch out" if very tight, and then lose tension. Personally, I would think a thick fender washer with a hardened (and thick) smaller washer would work. IIRC, I have always used the factory washer, though. I run mine up to at least 55 ft-lbs, maybe 60, with copious threadlocker and a few times I've used JB Weld when I didn't have any threadlocker on hand.

Lou

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:47 pm 
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SL6 Racer & Moderator
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2002 12:06 pm
Posts: 8749
Location: Silver Springs, Fl.
Car Model:
I posted this question over at FABO, in the small block section. This is the response I got.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Mopar-Performance ... 8/10002/-1

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/prod ... rtid=11253

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/caatha.html

I wonder if i will clear the slant six timing cover.

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:39 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:27 am
Posts: 548
Location: Waynesboro VA
Car Model:
Quote:
I bet there is something out there that we could use...

What I am looking for is a hardened spring washer with a larger OD...
The factory one is 1.5 inches OD and that size does not completely cover the dowel pin. ( I want to cover up a cam advance shim / off-set bushing)
A 1 3/4 washer OD would do the trick.
DD
If the concern is that the bushing will walk out of the sprocket hole, I had the same thoughts today. I ended up using Mr Gasket offset bushings with an OD of .407" (13/32") . I drilled the sprocket with a 3/8" hole and then used a very shallow angle reamer to open up the hole from the back side so a taper would be in the hole. I then filed the bushing with a matching taper for part of it's depth. So the bushing can't get ouf the sprocket hole (well, not without getting all beat to heck first!). A little blue locktite is in there for good measure; I probably have the taper a bit looser than it should be; probalbly has .001' or a bit more of slop (hand filed bushing taper).

The only thing about the offset bushing is that you have to get it oriented so the offset axis is along a tangent to the diameter. If the offset axis is rotated off at an angle to the tangent, it wants to push the sprocket off-center and cock it a bit, and would bind up the chain on one side. But some fiddling around got it aligned nicely.


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 Post subject: McMaster
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:58 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:07 am
Posts: 2132
Location: SF Bay Area
Car Model: 67 dart 2 door hardtop
Belleville washers: http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-washers/=v0gib4

Grade 9 bolts: http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-cap-screws/=v0gj32

fyi,

brian

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 Post subject: flanged ones
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:02 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:07 am
Posts: 2132
Location: SF Bay Area
Car Model: 67 dart 2 door hardtop
Here are the flanged high strength bolts: http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-cap-screws/=v0gklo

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:24 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:50 pm
Posts: 6291
Location: So California
Car Model: 64 Plymouth Valiant
FYI

Stacking Belleville washers this way

(((((

ups the spring rate of the stack


so if you're flatting the washer, use more like above.


this way
()()()

lowers the spring rate of the stack


(if you want a low torque connection)

_________________
Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

8)


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