I called Real Gaskets, they are making a prototype silicone gasket set for me to try, 1/16". If it works, they'll make this gasket commercially available. It will take them 3 weeks to make the prototype set.

The trick will be to make sure the metal surfaces are completely dry and clean, and not to over torque them. Will use blue Loctite so the bolts don't walk back out.

FYI,

Brian

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I have used their gaskets for years, and they have always performed Great!
Will it be both gasket for the water pump?(both sides of metal plate)

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1964 Dart GT

they will sell it as a two gasket kit.

brian

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...for the gaskets to be made, I was wondering something, likely, overthinking it, but...

You torque water pump bolts down to 20-25 ft-lbs, it is on there firmly. Your fan belt runs on the water pump pulley. There is some lateral force imparted to the water pump, but since the water pump is so firmly attached this is not an issue.

BUT, if one were to use silicone gaskets, the torque on the bolts will only be in the in lbs range, because it is so soft it'll squish out if you tighten too much. And, the silicone gaskets are much thicker than the paper ones.

Any chance the lateral force will affect the seal, walk the pump laterally over time? It can't go too far the sides of the bolt will make contact with the holes they go through at some point. And the silicone, being so pliable, would conform with any movement. Also the silicone will only be 1/16" thick.

Brian

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I am not sure what problem you are trying to solve with the silicone water pump gaskets. I have never had a leakage problem with the Felpro or production gaskets and there is no torque issue with those.

If I were to pursue better gaskets from them, it would be some redesign/improvement of the oil pan gaskets... Timing cover might be another good one, esp TC gaskets you could reuse if you pull the TC to swap cams...

Just my 2 cents...

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

They are going to cause more issues then they solve.

If they really are 1/16" each, that's going to displace the pump 1/8" total. Two paper gaskets are probably less then 1/16" total. Belt alignment may become an issue.

Anyone that has brackets hanging off the same bolts (a/c, alternator...) in-lb torque just wouldn't work.

You can use dowel pins to keep the pump in place but that would require some precision hole drilling. And would make install more of a pita.

I have used real gaskets for valve cover and oil pan on the Ruster car.

I was unhappy as when you might hit them with solvent like say lacquer thinner - i like to use thinner on rag to clean oily surfaces at times.

I more recently had trouble with the Reusable Pan rail gaskets stretching out ... and then upon re- assembly they were too long and the bolt holes did not line up.

I was sure not to touch them with solvent .. I went back to regular pan gaskets and used a bit of sealer in the right places and had had no leaking at all so far.

I use 3 Paper Water pump gaskets on the ruster engine - One between the engine to engine plate - one between the engine plate to the water pump plate and one between the water pump plate to the water pump housing.

The water pump bolts on this setup are grade 8 as they locate the engine to the chassis - Along with the 3 paper gaskets... I have had 0 problems in 6 years.

Greg

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This has been my experience with RealGaskets as well; both with valve cover and differential gaskets.

I've never had an issue with paper water pump gaskets, either.

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Silicone is not some magical be-all, end-all, cure-all material. Like every other material, it has strengths and weaknesses. Most generally-available grades of silicone have poor resistance to engine oil, hydraulic oil, petroleum fuels, and related fluids; contact with those fluids tends to soften and deform silicone. That's why things like valve stem seals and front main seals and rear main seals and timing cover gaskets valve cover gaskets and valve cover grommets and distributor O-rings aren't made (by major-name gasket companies with engineers and R&D budgets, etc.) out of silicone, they're made out of Viton or nitrile or polyacrylate or neoprene. That's also why silicone valve cover gaskets and oil pan gaskets and suchlike are found to have softened and stretched to uselessness as reported in this thread. It's the wrong material for the application, and it's not reasonable or realistic to expect the wrong material to do the job right—one might as well demand that a hammer serve as a screwdriver, or that water act as an "upgrade" replacement for gasoline.

Add me to the chorus: this water pump gasket proposal is silly(cone). It can't even be called a solution in search of a problem; it's more like just a stack of problems. The ordinary gaskets, properly prepared, have been sealing slant-6 water pumps just fine for 56 years now.

What's really needed is a one-piece oil pan/timing cover gasket with a steel skeleton. The odds of such a part materialising are about the same as my odds of winning the lottery, so I'll just go ahead and say what's actually really needed is a cast aluminum oil pan with a full-circumference channel for a round-cross-section one-piece rubber seal. The odds of that part materialising are about the same as my odds of winning the lottery twice.

And I don't buy lottery tickets.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

The same factory that'll cast us $5 aluminum heads will cast us $0.50 oil pans.

I only thought of the idea because I had such an issue this time with my water pump. Dan's copper sealant method seemed to do better than silicone on the paper gaskets (and cleaner for sure).

I will say that I use silicone gaskets on my valve cover and they work fantastic, no leaks and reusable over and over and over.

As I described before, I had never had any issues with water pump leaks, it was just this time, but after three tries and still having leaks, I thought if there was a solution that didn't require any sealant, why not try it? (Though, again, Dan's method of preapplying sealant and letting it dry solved my issues with getting sealant between the plate and pump body, that was always messy before).

BTW, I spoke with Chris at Real Gaskets today, he was hesitant to even make the silicone set, he suggested high tack (permatex) sealant, he poo pooed clear silicone and copper spray, but agreed to make me a set to try anyway. So, although he also believed I was crazy to try silicone, he thought some of the tried and true methods we've been discussing are bad choices as well. It seems everyone has their own favorite method of sealing. Sounds to me like Chris' method is very much like Dan's; so they are both "right" in my book.

On Greg's comment, I'm not sure I understand where the 3 gaskets go; there are only two places, between the pump and plate and between the plate and block. What is the engine to engine plate?

All that said, I will have a silicone set made and test it out. If it doesn't work, then Dan's method wins in my book. Less mess, and very easy (though mine still leaks a bit, I'll have to try it again). If the silicone gaskets work, even better, no more sealant or new gaskets to buy - ever.

brian

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Oh yeah, I agree it would be best to have that water pump grooved with an O-ring. As I mentioned above, like the new water pumps have.

brian

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Greg has an engine plate in his car to mount the engine, so he has an extra gasket.

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!

12.70 @ 104.6

Dan: Nothing like setting ones self for failure.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

...on the extra plate explanation.

Let's just say before I was a patent attorney, I was a scientist, and I want to try this out. We can call it a waste of time, but I'm doing it for the sake of trying while I have my coolant drained.

I might well put them on there and immediately determine they are inappropriate due to feel, spacing or whatever. Even so, I'm going to test them out and report back.

Either way, Dan you should post your water pump gasket method on a sticky note or other high level place where folks can find it. It's really a good way to go.

brian

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