This is a story about a company that made very good products and has the absolute worst customer/ dealer service I have ever encountered in 23 years in the mechanical trades. That company is called Clifford Performance (CP) of Temecula, California and they have in the past made some excellent performance manifolds, headers, cams & other performance parts for inline six cylinder engines of all makes from Hudson to Mopar. I will be venting here and then I will close with a question.
I run an independent established motorcycle performance shop at 114 degrees west & 47 and a half degrees north. We build & modify things with 61cu. in., four cylinder, twenty valve, four-stroke engines with 12,500 RPM redlines that reliably produce 150 BHP. We have a relatively long cold off-season called winter and we do not work on two-strokes (snowmobiles). One of my interests is inline six cylinder automotive & light truck engines. So, years ago, I started doing six cylinder rebuilds with CP hot rod modifications in the winter to supplement the business in the off-season. I have had some impressive six cylinder 1/2 ton trucks leave here with Perfomance Sportbikes (PSB) built engines in them.

The next post from me contains the rest of the story.

This winter I had a guy bring me an 81 W150, slant six with a NP435 four speed. In mid November, 03 I ordered manifold & headers from CP for this customer's Dodge. Then I rebuilt the 225, the 435, the transfer case & the bench seat. The plan is for a Carter AFB, 500CFM, 4 barrel, carb & dual 2 1/2" side-by-side exhausts. I have done this package before & it works great. The first boxes of CP, parts ordered in mid November, arrived in mid February, 04. I called CP twice a week whilst I was waiting for my 225 parts and I got many, many, many different stories as to why the parts were delayed. Unfortunately I never got the same story twice! My Dodge owning customer is most dis-pleased!
While I can make the 225 intake manifold fit with some filing the exhaust headers were split open junk that has never known any quality control. The replacement headers arrived in early March and they are malformed to the point that they will never fit on the engine. Now CP has asked me to ship four large boxes of useless 225 headers back to them on my nickle and they say they will refund my shipping costs. CP latest story is I may get replacement headers, that might actually fit this 225, in two to three weeks. My money is on it being a month or more before I see the parts I ordered in mid November, 03. The customer with the Dodge is pissed that the engine has been out of his truck since mid November. My shop's cash-flow looks like a train wreck!

In December, 03 another guy comes in my shop with an 86 Ford F150, 4WD, 300cu.in. inline six cylinder that he wants to set-up with a Carter AFB 500CFM & CP manifoilds. I'm no idiot; so, this time I wait until CP tells me they have the Ford parts in stock & ready to ship before I take this customer's money. Come mid January CP calls me up & they say they have got the Ford stuff ready to ship so I order it.Two days later CP tells me that they did not have enough of the parts to fill my order. Next the CP story is a two to three week wait for the next batch of parts to be manufactured. I called CP twice a week since January whilst I was waiting for my 300 parts and I got many, many, many different stories as to why the parts were delayed. Unfortunately I never got the same story twice! The last call to CP was yesterday: They said two to three more weeks!

So, that is the kind of outfit Clifford Performance (CP) has become. Keep in mind that I am not just a one-time consumer purchaser, but a repete purchasing Jobber. CP has delivered me some great stuff in the past that fit well, worked great, & arrived on time. Those days are apparently over. If you are thinking of buying parts from CP good luck! I would reccomend you do not plan on ever receiving your CP parts & plan your rebuilds & modifications accordingly!

Now for the question. Can you provide me with other inline six cylinder related sites where I can post this story so as to warn others?

A thoroughly dis-satisfied Clifford Performance Jobber,
Matt at PSB

OK, it is 04/06/04 and Clifford just told me 30 working days untill I get the header I ordered & paid for on 11/21/03. THESE GUYS SUCK: DO NOT BUY THEIR STUFF! At no time did I not specifiy my application correctly. They had no problem taking my money.

Matt at PSB

How far up the customer service chain have you complained? How loud have you yelled? I'd be calling them every day at this point.

Talk to Larry Milwee, he is the owner. What I do when I order from Clifford is: Talk to Larry only. Ask for a delivery date. Pay by credit card. tell Larry if I do not have the parts by the promised date, I will cancel the order, and put the amount in "dispute" with the credit card company. I have gotten my parts that way. The law in the US, requires mail order companies, ship their product within a spicified time, or give the customer the option of a refund, or extension of time.

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225

I forgot to give credit where credit is due. The Ford stuff I mentioned in the first or second posting was ordered in late Dec., 03, & it arrived, from Clifford, about two weeks ago. It is in the Ford & running well. It only took a little over three months to get. Still waiting for the Dodge 225 header that was ordered on 11/21/03!

I talk to Larry most of the times I call. He is one of the ones who tells me a different story each time! It sucks that I have their 10 digit phone number memorized!

Poor Jack Clifford; he must be spinning in his grave!

Matt at PSB

Sad to see one of the few companies that supports the inline six croud going so far downhill.

I ordered my headers from CP a few years ago, when Jack was (apparently) still running things. The headers were nice pieces, and fit well. Shipping took about 1 week.

Now it seems I see a post about CP's poor customer service every week, which is why I have stopped giving CP my hard earned $$.

I wonder what it would take to get CP to run things they way they used to....customer first

-S/6

thanks for the warning i had been thinking of ordering a header from them since they are the only ones i've seen that build one i'll stick with my stock exaust

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MOPAR OR NO CAR
1985 Ram
1975 Coronet
1998 Dakota

I wanted a set of the shortie headers too, but it sounds like it isn't worth the hassle. Too bad.
I've heard this same sort of thing from about 5 different people now.

go to .com and look at my post from a few months ago!!! I will never order from them again I will use their products but bought used only.

I ordered a set of shorty headers for my Duster about 6 years ago when Jack was still in charge. Got them in 2 weeks as promised, but the guy I talked to was a real pain in the ***k. The headers were beautiful, but unfortunately wouldn't even come close to fitting my Duster. Luckily I bought a '66 Valiant and they fit in it. They are still on the car too.

I have a buddy who ordered a Clifford valve cover for his Dart. Even though they said they wouldn't, they charged his credit card instantly. After 4 months of calling every other week and getting a line of bullshyt, the cover finally showed up. It is an Offenhauser cover with Clifford lettered on it. (We have compared it to my Offy)

I used to go through the same horseshyt with Kenne-Bell when I raced Buicks. All these guys do is take orders until they get enough to have a run of parts made. I really have no problem with that since we are a pretty small market, but it would be nice to be told that up front and not lied to.

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Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

I'll jump on the band wagon.

two years ago I purchased the dual clifford headers for my slant and I called and called and told them I want a set, they said that a new batch arrived that morning and they were flying out the door like hotcakes. I drove here (hour and a half drive) from torrance to temecula and all they had were the ceramic coated headers for like 350 bucks. Against my will and my budget I knew I diodnt wanna make this drive again. I bought them, they are still on the car, somewhat of a bad design, I had to dimple the #1 tube ALOT to clear my power steering, then the collector was butting entirely to close to the second header. Upon paying for it, the fat dude, i dont know his name, told me my setup was completely wrong without even knowing what was on the car and I should buy thier modified cylinder head, their Weber setup, and Hyper-pak manifold. I looked at the dude, told him thanks for the headers, but he doesnt know sh*t about mopars, the lady just looked at me and her jaw dropped, Will I ever buy from them again? maybe. Will I ever send them money? HELL NO!

Im sorry you have to endure this kinda business act but I agree, Old man clifford is spinning in his grave. I feel the same way about Isky butt hats a whole other posting.

Pete

Clifford sold modified /6 heads? And what sort of power steering did you have? I have the stock PS setup in my 71 duster and had zero fitment issues with it.

In cliffords defense, I didn't have a problem getting my parts from them (shorty headers and standard aluminum manifold), oh.. must of been roughly 2 or 3 years ago. Only issue was that the header leaked between #1 and #2 because it was slightly warped. Called them up, they said I have to cut the flange between the two pipes. Said I could send it to them to cut it or do it myself, and it wouldn't void warranty. I did so, and no more leaks.

Last year when hunting around for an EFI system, I called them, they said they were making a weber kit, and to check back in 2-3 weeks. Called back probably a month later, said not ready, still testing, 2-3 more weeks. Called back again later on, more blablah, so I just gave up on them for efi.

Wow about some more inline six web sites so I can deceminate my warning to others about CP?

Matt at PSB

One thing to say about your exhaust needs: Dutra Duals!!! Man I talked to Dutra on internet only and ordered a pair of his duals. They are pricey, but they are quality pieces, I mean awesome quality, second to NONE. I paid and they were at my door step right when he said they would be. he even paid for the shipping when I sent him my old exhaust manifold that was cracked. Dutra is the real deal. I am telling you what I am learning more and more that I was born way too late. You dont find many stand-up operations out there anymore. Back in the 50's and 60's I am sure people would jip you as well, but not like today. Back then there was respect. Your mechanic was looked upon like an Einstine of the automotive world, a greasy Da Vinci. Now anyone that is blue color is not held in such high esteem, it saddens my heart. I am 23 and I am learning some good lessons from my elders (no replacement for life experience).

But hey I am sorry you guys have been jerked around by Clifford, that is a shame. Do you think the people running that company have any idea they are ruining Clifford's good name? I suppose they dont or they dont care. Idiots. The buyers shall speak, maybe they will learn before it is too late and they close down.

caesar