Yup. It will when I zero deck the block.

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Rob

It is enough that Jesus died and that he died for me.

Thanks Doug!

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Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

Where is the current deck measurement?

I think piston off-set may also be a factor. Do your pistons have any off-set?

As noted earlier, available head gasket thickness is limited so pick a gasket and work-out the deck height to get the squish you want.
If I ever rebuild my closed chamber engine I will likely try .030 quench distance. that means the pistons would have to stick out of the block .008 if I use a common FelPro head gasket.
DD

Right now, deck clearance is .043". My plan is to zero deck height the block and run the Print O Seal head gasket which specs out "somewhere" between .038-.042 which will be perfect for the quench distance. At least for what I am doing. Pistons are zero offset. I assumed when I got them, they would have an offset, but they do not. As said earlier, I plan on a camshaft with a late IVC event probably around 68-70 degrees. This will help in bulding cylinder pressure later in the compression stroke and keep cylinder pressure down to help avoid detonation. So many people make the incorrect statement camshafts "bleed off" cylinder pressure, but that's not how it works. You cannot bleed off what's not there. A later IVC event simply begins building pressure later in the compression stroke, so it doesn't bleed it off. I also plan on a fairly low lift (under .500") to help keep valve train stresses to a minimum and keep costs down not having to run fancy valve springs . I want this engine to last and be dead reliable, even though it will be and sound pretty radical.

Now with the ability to gain some quench, I should have even more room against detonation. I've spoken in depth with Marco at United Engine and Machine and he agrees optimal quench distance is .035-.040 so I will be right in that ballpark. He's assured me that I can run up to about 8.5-8.6 DCR, but I'm not going to push the envelope. That was never the purpose for this build. I plan to keep DCR either at 8.0 or 7.99, which will be well out of harm's way for detonation, especially in a light 64 Valiant with 4.10 gears and manual transmission.

This engine is a ways out, though, as I am building a "for now" engine right this minute from a good recently rebuilt stock 225 short block, heavily milled head (.155" don't ask it was an accident lol) and Oregon reground cam. The long rod engine still has to come back down for block decking and other detail work, plus I have to get some things done to the "new" closed chamber head when it arrives.



Thanks for your input. It's greatly appreciated.

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Rob

It is enough that Jesus died and that he died for me.

Rob, What Timing gear Drive setup are you using?
(sorry for off topic Question)

Greg

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http://www.youtube.com/hyperpack

Not at all Greg. It's all relative. It's a CHEAP (under 20 bucks) C.A.T. gear drive for a 440. After seeing people machine spacers for the cam gear to space it out since the cam gear is the only thing different, I got to thinking there must be a better way to align the gears. SO I sat there looking and thinking on it. For a couple of hours. Fiddling with gears, just messin around gettin familiar with it. It fits pretty much as is, but the crank gear sits out too far barely meshing with the idler gears. This is why people were making spacers. Suddenly it hit me. I pried the crank gear back off and flipped it over backwards and knocked it back on. It lined up perfect backwards, so I remarked it and there it is. I cannot STAND how the dual idler system "rocks" back and forth when you turn the engine one way, then the other. It's a problem every single dual idler system has and it allows the crank to move several degrees independent of the cam gear. I don't like that. So I plan to either convert the gear drive to a single, fixed idler, OR run a Rollmaster/JP timing chain set. That's what I have for my "for now" motor I am working on now. I've already figured out how to make this a single, fixed idler setup and when I do it, I'll post here so yall can see how I did it. I'm just going to have to be very confident that it will not fail when I am done, in order to let it fly, because for ME, being on a fixed and very limited income, this isn't a cheap hobby.

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Rob

It is enough that Jesus died and that he died for me.

What I've found is that the piston companies today, who are on top of their game, have so much information on cylinder heads that they can pretty easily make a piston that will turn an open chamber head into a close chamber head, if you know what I mean. I'm not sure they have that ability on a Slant Six, but I have had some pistons made to mate with some fairly unknown heads and they didn't bat an eyelash. They basically are CNC milling the top of the piston to whatever profile you like.

So, if you want a closed chamber layout, you can use an open chamber head and let the piston provide whatever quench you like.

How do I measure Pin offset for a set of non stock / non factory pistons before install onto directional rods with squirt holes?


Greg

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http://www.youtube.com/hyperpack

Yup. I have a Ford 351C 4V engine with original closed chamber heads. I have a set of NOS Aries pistons with domes made exactly like the chambers. But in this case, they are matched to closed chambers. That gives this engine a possible 13.5:1 compression ratio with the right combination. There's a guy over on The Hamb that has an early Chrysler Hemi....I think it's a 354. He has a verified 13.5:1 and runs on 100% pump premium. It can be done, but you better have every I dotted and T crossed, or bad thAngs can happen.

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Rob

It is enough that Jesus died and that he died for me.

Use dial calipers is how I do it. Go in on one side of the pin hole and measure to the outside of the skirt, then the other side. You can tell real quick if it's "supposed" to be a centered pin. It's not dead accurate doing it like that, but it's accurate enough to tell if the pin is centered.

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Rob

It is enough that Jesus died and that he died for me.

While it's true you can get quench like that, it's also been shown on the dyno that quench with a flat top can produce more power, all things equal, because of the smoother path for flame travel. Probably gettin into hair splittin territory now,but that's what all the studies show.

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Rob

It is enough that Jesus died and that he died for me.

The eagle has landed. I'll post more pictures this evening. I have to go over to the next county and check on a friend's SS Chevelle that's not running right. Imagine that. A Chevy not runnin right. <snort>

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Rob

It is enough that Jesus died and that he died for me.

[/quote]....... it's also been shown on the dyno that quench with a flat top can produce more power, all things equal, because of the smoother path for flame travel.[/quote]

That's why no performance aftermarket cylinder head company makes a cylinder head without a quench combustion chamber....

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There's no such thing as too much cam....only not enough engine!

....... it's also been shown on the dyno that quench with a flat top can produce more power, all things equal, because of the smoother path for flame travel.[/quote]

That's why no performance aftermarket cylinder head company makes a cylinder head without a quench combustion chamber....[/quote]

Yup. Where's the "like" button? lol

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Rob

It is enough that Jesus died and that he died for me.

Ok here it bees. Charrlie_S, I took the thickness measurement you asked for. I have not CC'd it yet, as it's pretty cold here tonight, so I'll do that tomorrow. I measured first, an unmilled open chamber "revised" chamber head and it's thickness from the valve cover rail to the deck is 3.614". The closed chamber head in the same place measures 3.625", so it is actually a little thicker. So, I would assume the closed chamber has never been milled. Certainly not milled from open to closed, which will be evident in the next pictures.

First, the casting number. That 2nd "4" is a 4, it's just a bad angle and the flash helped wash it out. Maybe that's a date code above it, I don't know.

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Rob

It is enough that Jesus died and that he died for me.