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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:12 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:00 pm
Posts: 2939
Location: kankakee IL
Car Model: 80 volare, 78 fury 2 dr, 85 D150
Brand new, but probably from the 80s or older. Only the thrust bearing looks like this. Pulled out of the package like this.
Ok the important part.... I ain't very good at posting pix, hope it works I have never seen one with the coating coming off like this before. Junk?
I did set the crank in and plastigaged the clearances which are all at 0.002" which is fine. And I stopped there cuz I didn't like what I saw.i can't catch a nail on the edge of where the coating ends.
Guess I oughtta open the rod bearings and see what they look like. Same brand but came from somewhere else (different seller on ebay)

what do you guys think?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:35 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:00 pm
Posts: 2939
Location: kankakee IL
Car Model: 80 volare, 78 fury 2 dr, 85 D150
well, for what I paid for them, (not much, and less than at any local parts store wants for them) not worth worrying about. In a couple days I will have another set. worth it, for peace of mind. Overall, an engine overhaul costs too much to worry about a questionable part that can be re-replaced, for what a set of bearings can be bought for, I have another set coming. but had to ask, since I have never seen a set that looked like this.

but, I would still like to hear what you guys think of the ones pictured, what's going on with them, and whether you would use them in your engine or not. I didn't.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:30 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 3830
Location: Indianapolis
Car Model:
Don, the bigbest concern with any bearing is that plating would break away from the steel backing with the bearing in use in the engine. One of the components that I had quality engineering oversight responsibilities for back in my working days was engine bearings. I worked with the Mahle bearing plant in Atlantic Iowa, and the Federal Mogul bearing plants in Greenville MI and Mexico. The standard tests for bearing overlay ( the plated materials ) adhesion were:
* Bend Test, one would physically distort the bearing until it snapped, the plated material would need to break with the steel, and not flake off
* Gouge Test, one would go at the plating edges and body with a sharp scapel, the material may dent and cut in but not break free.
* Rub Test, a bar of smooth steel with a similar diameter to the bearing would be rubbed with force against the plated surface, the plating may roughen, but not break free.

as you can see all of these tests are all destructive testing.

It is impossible to know with confidence from a photograph but what you may have is Metal Migration in plated materials. That is a failure mode that can occur, but we never saw it as the bearing were made and put into use. Even service bearing were not around for more than a few years.
Metal Migration is something that takes years and years and years for it to happen. The plating substrate in the bearing are layered on in an order to prevent or stop that process.
The only way to know with confidence is to have an scanning electron microscope study done of the surface and see if copper is present. I doubt if you want to do that.

This article has information on Metal Migration.
https://materion.com/-/media/files/Allo ... oating.pdf

The discoloration may also be some simple corrosion of the tin plate top layer. Since it is on both of the half sides of the thrust bearing but not the other mains, it would be an interesting study to know why. If packaged together they should of had similar lives in storage. Are the other mains old, but not as old as the thrust bearing? Does the thrust bearing actually have a plating defect allowing Metal Migration?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:42 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:00 pm
Posts: 2939
Location: kankakee IL
Car Model: 80 volare, 78 fury 2 dr, 85 D150
That's how I took it, a plating defect. There was a spot where it looked peeled, along an edge where the silver and black met, just in one area. There was no plating dust in the box though. This had to be the most well packaged set of bearings that I have ever unboxed. And interesting info on the subject.
No, not gonna send them in for testing, for $20 I just bought another set.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:19 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:29 pm
Posts: 737
Location: Houston
Car Model: 68 Valiant
I 'think' it's an example of the flash plating suffering from poor adhesion.

If you installed them 'as is', there's a good chance nothing would happen as the flash coat is very thin and almost a 'consumable'. I think the flash is there to act as a break0in aid and not intended to be the actual bearing surface.

A lot of racers used to use white Scotchbrite to remove the flash altogether. At least, they used to. The bearing makers used to specifically say 'don't remove the flash plating with Scotchbite'.

If it were me, I wouldn't use Scotchbrite on a bearing, nor would I use those bearings.

As you did, I'd buy a different set.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:03 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:00 pm
Posts: 2939
Location: kankakee IL
Car Model: 80 volare, 78 fury 2 dr, 85 D150
White Scotchbrite? don't think I have seen white.
Got my 2nd set of new bearings, look much better, they're in. I didn't throw the 1st set away (yet anyway), 3 of 4 are still good, wonder if I could get just a thrust bearing vs a whole set?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:07 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:44 pm
Posts: 790
Location: New England
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Quote:
White Scotchbrite? don't think I have seen white.
Got my 2nd set of new bearings, look much better, they're in. I didn't throw the 1st set away (yet anyway), 3 of 4 are still good, wonder if I could get just a thrust bearing vs a whole set?
I use white Scotchbrite to clean grout off tiles. The green pads can discolor the grout lines.

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