If it isn't one thing, it's another.

Finally got things ready for a test run of Aaron's rebuilt engine. After passing the milestone of getting it running (see thread in Engine forum), I noticed a small pool of power steering fluid under the car. It appears to be leaking slowly around the shaft that the steering coupler attaches to. Is there a seal that can be easily replaced, or am I facing a major set-back to our recent progress?

Jerry

_________________
There's a difference between ignorance and stupidity.
Ignorance is not knowing any better.
Stupidity is knowing, yet doing it anyway.

...just put some stop-leak or some trans-X in it for now... Have to remove column and steering gear "head" to access input shaft seal. It can wait till you have the other stuff sorted out.

D/W

_________________

If it ain't broke, fix it!

Is there that much difference in handling and steering effort between the manual and power steering in these light A-bodies? I wouldn't be opposed to considering manual steering, if I could convince Aaron that it doesn't make much difference. I've heard something about 16:1 (?) ratio gearboxes. Are they manual, power, or both?

Jerry

_________________
There's a difference between ignorance and stupidity.
Ignorance is not knowing any better.
Stupidity is knowing, yet doing it anyway.

I've had one Duster with factory manual steer and converted another. Perfectly happy with them. Will he be doing much parallel parking?

D/W

_________________

If it ain't broke, fix it!

If he does it once, it will be more than I have in the past several years.

Is that 16:1 ratio correct? What is typical for a manual steering gearbox?

Jerry

_________________
There's a difference between ignorance and stupidity.
Ignorance is not knowing any better.
Stupidity is knowing, yet doing it anyway.

Nonpower steering works great in the A-bodies, if you pick the ratio carefully. The ordinary common ratio is 24:1, which is way too slow. You get about 76.7 turns lock-to-lock (OK, you get 5¾... same difference). The "quick" ratio you've heard about is indeed 16:1 (3½ turns lock-to-lock). It's a terrific way to take all the enjoyability out of driving the car so equipped except on a racetrack. Total pain in the butt (shoulders) around town even in a lightweight '60s A-body with a lightweight aluminum 225. A much heavier '74 with the Ralph Nader crash bumper and heavier iron engine? Fuhgeddaboudit. Also this box is really squirrelly on the highway. Want a very close approximation of what the 16:1 box is like? Take the belt off your P/S pump and go for a drive. The power box has the same 16:1 ratio.

As with bowls of porridge, so with steering ratios. 24:1 is toooooo slow. 16:1 is tooooooo fast. The middle ratio, 20:1 (4½ turns lock-to-lock), is juuuuuuuust right. You'll have to custom-order such a box, though, from Firm Feel or Steer & Gear, or order the 20:1 worm-and-ball-nut assembly and build up such a box yourself -- basically no factory boxes came with the 20:1 ratio. A very few in '65-'68 came with the 16:1, but this is for all real purposes also a special-order item at this point in time.

The nonpower steering column shaft needs to be shorter than the power shaft. There are coupler extenders available that allow the safe use of a power column when retrofitting a nonpower box, or you can swap the steering shaft or swap the whole column.

I don't really like PS in A-bodies.

Good info to consider, Dan. We spent a lot of time cleaning and painting the gear box and pump. It's a shame that we find it leaking at this critical stage in our rebuild of the Dart. I know what you're going to say ("get the manual"), but I'll ask this anyway... does it take any special tools or expertise to change out the seal around the input shaft? And where does one go to get the seal, is there a repair kit available at my dealer, like the one I got for the steering coupler? (I promise, the manual is on my wish list)


I don't quite understand this statement. If the non-power shaft must be shorter than the power shaft, why would I want to extend the coupler on my power shaft, making it even longer?

We also spent a LOT of time painting and detailing the steering column. I don't relish the thought of tossing it out and starting over.
Jerry

_________________
There's a difference between ignorance and stupidity.
Ignorance is not knowing any better.
Stupidity is knowing, yet doing it anyway.

Ummmm...good question. I'd have to go look in a FSM (hint, hint!)
'cos I've never had to replace an input shaft seal on one of these boxes. However, the nature of these boxes is such that you run a very strong chance of fixing the one leak and thereby increasing the stress on another weak seal elsewhere in the box (output shaft...), causing a new leak and requiring you to start all over again.
All the parts should still be available from the dealer, as the box is interchangeable with that used right up to the very end of RWD Mopars ('89 M-body Diplomat, Gran Fury, NYer 5th Ave, Canadian Caravelle). If your dealer gets all surly when you ask for parts for a '74, ask for parts for an '89 Diplomat.

Well, that's your fault for reading what I typed 'stead of what I meant! The nonpower shaft is longer than the power shaft, which means when converting from power to nonpower, you can simply add the extender-coupler and not have to change or even remove the existing steering column.

DS (One of the many things I have never liked about PS on Slant-6s is the poorly-done bracketry for the pump. It's damn near impossible to tension the belt correctly and have it stay tightened.)

Very accurate statement.

D/W

_________________

If it ain't broke, fix it!

Well, aren't you guys just full of hope and good cheer.
I'm going to put aside this power steering issue until we get the engine problems ironed out. We'll revisit this another time.
Actually, my dealer's parts manager is very helpful. Already helped track down shift linkage grommets and bushings, fuel sending unit filter and seal,
and a few other odds and ends.
Hey, you're the one with the FSM. Just shows you that I do pay attention. I'm a quick learner.
Agreed, it's certainly a difficult chore for one man. Took both of us.

Jerry

_________________
There's a difference between ignorance and stupidity.
Ignorance is not knowing any better.
Stupidity is knowing, yet doing it anyway.

that seal is the worm shaft seal according to plymouth manual.
i have one on back order from napa. you can order that seal online
from napaautoparts.com. enter in the make year model for the car
and go to steering parts screen.

i tried a stop leak before and then the power steer pulley seal started leaking.

I just read that the worm shaft oil seal should be removed with special tool no. C-3638, and the new seal is driven in place with tool no. C-3650.
Have any of you replaced this seal without using these special tools?

Jerry

_________________
There's a difference between ignorance and stupidity.
Ignorance is not knowing any better.
Stupidity is knowing, yet doing it anyway.

It's easy if you just pull the "head" off the steering gear. I suppose you could attempt to dig it out wit a small screwdriver or curved pick. I've replaced the sector shaft seal around the shaft in the past.

D/W

_________________

If it ain't broke, fix it!

I've got an extra one lying out under the Duster parts car. Guess I can practice on it, first.

Jerry

_________________
There's a difference between ignorance and stupidity.
Ignorance is not knowing any better.
Stupidity is knowing, yet doing it anyway.