Hi Guys,
I'm wondering if anyone nearby (Northern California area) has a "bad" aluminum block to get rid of. I'm looking for one that is erroded at the top of the sleeves and so is otherwise unusable.
Thanks,
Marc
www.marcmedina.com

OK, I'll bite. Why do you want a bad alluminum block? Big bore wet sleeves?
Scott.

because I have an idea for repairing it and also fixing the head gasket problem at the same time. Obviously though I don't want to try this with a good block.
Marc
www.marcmedina.com

Lemme guess.......you want to try welding in a 1/2" thick deck in order to stabilize the tops of the cylinders, and take care of the lack of head gaskets at the same time. If I'm not mistaken, Doug Dutra tried that once, and it ended up badly. I suggest you first consult with him before getting too deep.

Roger

No, actually I was thinking of inverting the block, adding a small spacer to make up for the decking to finish height , then pouring aluminum in through to create a deck and support the tops of the cylinders.

All this would be to use in a turbo charged light weight (vehicle weight hopefully down to about 2200 pounds) A-body with a custom built EFI system and a 5 speed manual over drive with an aim of 40 mpg cruising on the highway (EPA style) - kinda of a hot rodded version of a Dart Lite/Feather Duster

Since the block is 80 pounds lighter than a cast block, it's an important part of the plan. Even with all the turbo stuff, it would still be lighter than a non turbo cast block engine.

Pretty sure Doug's done that, too, and if I remember correctly, he found that the heat from the molten aluminum created uncontrollable distortion in the cylinder barrels' locations. Or maybe I'm thinking of when he welded-in a deck plate. Ask him!

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

You just sell the man a bad block!!! for god's sake!!! maybe he will find success in his project... I mean, I admire Doc but certainly is not the only gearhead in this board.... Don't put the man under the shade of "that's been done and it won't work" till he fails if he does. And if he does, we can all jump on his back and tap his head like Benny Hill did with the old small fellow and tell him "we told you so we told you so"

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Juan Ignacio Caino

Please use e-mail button istead of PM'ing. I do log in sometimes but I'll be answering quicker thru e-mail.

Well, that's not where I'm coming from, Juan. It's just that there are very few aluminum blocks left—good or bad—and so he stands the greatest chance of success if he talks to those (e.g. Doug) who have already done a great deal of experimentation on this exact kind of modification and can comment on what definitely didn't work, what could work with procedural or materials changes, what definitely works, etc.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Doug has tried the pouring thing, but there's nothing to say you can't make it work. Would be good to talk to him, of course. Sounds like a good use of a junk block to me.

Doug said that putting new liners in and filling with aluminum distorted everything so that all surfaces would have to be remachined. I saw the block in person and it needed some work. Still, it is a possibility.

Keep in mind you need some kind of water passages for cooling when you're all done.

I would love to do the project you describe, BTW, and may just beat you to it!

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

aluminum filled epoxy?

What about regular block filler? It does add weight, however, and might negate the advantage that you are seeking.

Greg

First getting a a-body down to 2200 lbs is going to take a lot of work and money. My 69 Dart weighs 2400 lbs and has all lexan windows light weight fiberglass hood and trunk deck front bumper is a lexan panel 3 lbs. alluminun floor pans alluminun wheels racing tires one light weight seat totally gutted on the inside no alternator no power steering no window cranks no radio no heater no windshield wipers alluminum trunk panel 5 gallon fuel cell electric fuel pump alluminun intake tube headers.
It has a cast engine but i could not get it to 2200 with a aluminun block after all listed. It is a pure race car. To get one to 2200lbs and get 40 miles to the gallon with a turbo would be amazing. Doint get me wrong i like people with a vison but some times wisdom should kick in Thanks Ron Parker


Hey Has That Thing Got A Bagel Bamboozler In It

1) I was hoping Doug would see this and contact me as I can't seem to find an e-mail address for him.

2) My uncle restores hand built Italian race cars (built from the mid 50's back to the teens) and is used to having to fabricate the tools to make the parts he needs as there simply is no such thing as a replacement part for the "only one like this ever built" car he's restoring. Some of these cars auction for over 1 million dollars. He's happy to help with "simple" things like this.

3) 2200 pounds was a "dream", with 2400 -2500 being more realistic I think.

4) Since the Dart Lite / Feather Duster was EPA'd at 36, I don't think a 10 % gain with significantly less weight and modern engine controls is at all out of the question.

5) I'm a die hard Mopar guy for a quarter of a century now, so I'm used to hearing that "it can't be done" and then getting it to work anyway. The guys I used to beat with my HyperPak Demon 18 years ago never thought they'd loose to a slant six, but did their jaws ever drop when I opened the hood after cleaning their clocks!

6) A lot of this hinges more on getting a modern trans bolted up to the engine. I'm thinking that I would have to splice a stock bellhousing with a GM unit (so I can use the GM hydraulic clutch setup) and still need to figure out the clutch and input shaft stuff too. Obviously, every little place I can save weight is important, so it will be a long time in the making getting as much weight off the car as I can. I've got some ideas for things like carbon fiber front end body parts, bumpers and trunk lid. Also in the plan is a tubular K member and rack and pinion steering. Those two items are a big weight savings. The lighter I can get the car, the better for braking too - so I can use thin steel rotors like Wilwood offers instead of the heavy stock stuff. I'm also considering a front end conversion as sold on www.bigblockdart.com which allows for a coil over front shock setup and eliminates the torsion bars. There are so many different ways to save weight out there, they just require some "out of the box thinking" that shouldn't be anything unusual to guys on this list!

7) If I can get the block mods to work, it would also include opening up water passages in the new deck surface of course. I am also considering a thin (maybe 3/16" or 1/4" plate welded into the open deck of the block but sunk 1/2" down and then filling slowly with molten aluminum from the top down instead of trying the inverted method. I also like that idea because then I could fill the block with water, use an electric water pump and a radiator and circulate water though as the top of the block is filled in to help control the heat.

When I was asking if anyone had a bad block to experiment with it was to find just that - something that is no longer useable for anything other than a door stop or a table. Just like I wouldn't turn an original R/T into a tubbed race car, I don't want to rape a good block just to experiment. Hell, even a block that's broken in half will do to experiment. If it all works well, then I know what to do with a good block.

9) Wouldn't you just love to see the story about this as a completed project in some of the big magazines???????? Hell, if they can have sub 10 second FWD cars in there, why not something about what you can do with some high tech parts application to an older A-body? If you look through the Chevy magazines, you see all the stuff about putting 90's Corvette chassis under 55-57 Chevys and using new computer controlled engines, six speed manual and 4 speed automatics - this is not any different. It's just not something you see every day.

10) I just wanna look into it seriously because I've thought about this project for oh, TWO DECADES now and I think the time is right to seriously investigate it!

I hope this doesn't come across as flaming on anyone. I realize none of you really know me, but I do have a lot of thought into this already. With my meager budget I sure don't have money to throw away on things that are pointless!

Marc

Hopefully you PM'd Doug under the Doctor Dodge name, he gets busy sometimes and is gone for a while, patience is good.

Hopefully someone can find a block for you, with the correct hardware still attached. Glad to see you have the gumption and a 'dream' and are looking for a solution to get it done (yep, my grandfather used to make tools when he couldn't find the right one for the job...).

The Feather Duster didn't get the mileage strictly from weight savings, most of it was a combination of EGR application, distributor timing/advance, and the OD with a really tall rear. My parents owned a stock one and it got the mileage...but my mom's 3 speed manual/225/3.23 '68 valiant would kick it's butt off the line everytime.
I think you have a good handle on what you want to do, just have to wait to get some direction from Doc.

look forward to hearing more about the project as it progresses,

-D.Idiot

Marc,

Sounds like a great project and I hope we can help out. If Doug doesn't have a block, he would know where to get one, I'd bet. I know he's been extremely busy lately, so be patient.

You might consider a T5 trans swap (see my post in Trans). This drops 15-25 lbs over a stock aluminum 4spd and 5-10 lbs from a 904 auto and gives you an extra gear.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

The T 5 is an okay transmission...The problem with these transmissions is that there is an extra shift...and that creates problems on the track...For that reason the Automatic is a superior choice...You can get ultralight trans cases and they are bulletproof and Superior to the Manual in every way on the track