How well do stock manual boxes hold up?

My power steering pump is starting to leak yet again and I'm getitng tired of it - I want to chuck it and the box for a 20:1 firmfeel unit but am not ready to spend $375 on one yet. I was thinking of getting a used one either online or junkyard for cheap while I get ready to buy a new one but am not sure if I should risk it....

I know I need the colum adapter - but what else should I look for/need ? Thought I read a post about certain boxes being better then others - v8 boxes use bearings instead of bushings, or something to that affect? But do v8 boxes use the same pitman arms? If they don't, what pitman arms can I use with a v8 box and the rest of my front end?

I believe all A,B,E body boxes use the same small sector pitman arm, which will bolt up to your drag link.

I have only manual boxes in my cars and love them. 68-up V8 cars should have rollerized lower bearing. I wouldn't worry too much about that as you can get the bushing pressed out and replaced with rollers if necessary. I have seen the bushings go bad, but only on really high mileage stuff. Look for a low-mileage take out. The 20:1 gearset can be had for about $200 these days, and replacement bearings/seals for about $25.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

The stock manual box is an excellent, durable piece of engineering. No reason to mess with e.g. the Flaming River iron box.

Interchange is indeed '62-'72 A-, B-, and E-body, as Dart270 says.

The 20:1 ratio is the one to pick. The common 24:1 ratio is too slow (5-3/4 turns lock-to-lock), the scarce 16:1 ratio is too fast (3-1/2 turns lock-to-lock, a real bear around town and in parking lots), the 20:1 ratio is juuuuuust right (4-1/2 turns lock-to-lock).

Sure, the bearing box is a little nicer than the bushing box, but this isn't super critical.

You use the pitman arm for your year and model of car, it's the same for power vs. manual.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

So putting in new seals, bearings, worm gears, etc don't require any sort of special tools (other then possibly a press?) Appears getting a rebuilt unit already at 20:1 may be anti-cost effective if they are easily converted.

A 24:1 box should still give you more road feel then a power setup ? I'm willing to put up with more turns lock to lock, at least temporarily, if it means no more power steering.

What about colums? Will a manual colum from a B or E fit an A ? It would be nice if I could find a manual colum as well to save on having to buy a $100 adapter.

Dan you said 62-72 A/B/E bodies... should that include 73-76 A bodies as well or not?

I have a manual on my 70. I like it better then the PS, doesn't leak, a lot less weight. I have a manual box for my 74 Duster and the pitman arm is different then the one on my 70. So you might want to pay attention to that. I think you can only use an A body column, I imagine by the time you find a manual column unless it's super cheap you'll probably spend close to $100 to get it. I like the Flaming River shaft because it cuts down on a lot of play in the steering system.

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70 Dart, 360, 727

I've never rebuilt a box, but it was easy to install the 20:1 worm and ball nut assembly in my '62's factory 24:1 manual box, and I absolutely lerve it. DÃ¥mn near perfection, as far as I'm concerned. The original '60-'61 A-bodies had 20:1 ratio from the factory (totally different/noninterchangeable box) and they should've stayed that way.
Fer sher, fer sher.
No, you need an A-body column.
H'm. I didn't remember those adaptors being *that* expensive. Note you can also just get the longer manual-steering shaft and swap that into your existing column. Here again, it must be an A-body item.
Well...now you've got me thinking. Angonnaminnit.

(sound of FPC pages flipping)

Nope, I was right the first time around: Up to '72 only.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

...yes. And better road feel, and less engine drag, and no bìtchy P/S pump bracketry and belt to mess with, and less-cluttered engine bay...shall I go on?
Yep, that's the difference. In '73 the A- and B-body got the larger pitman shaft that was used on C-bodies from '62.

Pitman arm interchange groups are: '60-'61, '62-'66, '67 only, '68-'72, '73-'76.
I haven't looked at the FR shaft. Can you tell us about it?

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I bought FR1505M from Bill Reilly at www.bigblockdart.com for $107 shipped.

http://www.flamingriver.com/index.cfm/p ... prd213.htm

You basically cut it to fit your application and it completely does away with the factory coupler. It's a nice piece.

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70 Dart, 360, 727

Yea those dang adapters are expensive - Paddock had them for just less then $100 (and includes a factory coupler reubild kit) other places just the adapter for ~$120+

Lars - sweet, thanks for pointing out the FR1505M. Hmm I'm not sure I like making the cut myself, doesn't that measurment have to be very precise or else the the joint binds? I don't see any mention of cutting on flaming rivers site. Did it come with any instructions that you could scan in ?

I just ball parked the cut. Haven't had any problems yet. It's pretty easy, I used an air powered cutoff tool.

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70 Dart, 360, 727

Ok, have a 70 duster box coming. Now only decision to make is the flaming river kit or a traditional coupler/adapter arrangment. Hmm, decisions decisions. Can't find anyone else thats used the flaming river kit other then Lars yet....

Lars, do you have any pictures of it installed?

Don't think so. I usually take pics of everything while I'm working on stuff. I'll have to check when I get home from work.

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70 Dart, 360, 727

there is one other alternative to the factory style coupler/adapter deal. look in the '70s b-vans. i found one with a reman 24:1 box that uses a adapter similar to the one ffi has been selling. the trick with ffi's adapter is it provides the extension to p/s box length plus the different splines. the factory adapter will just increase the length of the box while keeping the manual box spline. that being said, the adapter could be used with a manual coupler of the same length as the p/s one currently in the car. it seems to me that you could save a little dough here. incidentally, the b-vans use the same box as the c-bodies. so if a big shaft/needle bearing box is what you're after you can get is all from a van. just keep in mind they are shaped a little different in the area of the sector shaft adjuster, which shouldn't be a problem on a slant.
another tip i recently heard is that mopar still sells coupler rebuild kits for the b-van for about $10-15, but they will also fit in the dart couplers. i haven't tried using one of these kits, but would certainly explain the amount of these i see on ebay for $25-30.

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I just got the FR1505M kit from summit (gotta love them, the are 3 hours away, ground shipping = overnight). Its a beefy unit indeed, worth the money. Now to wait for the box to come in.

How heavy are these manual boxes? I thought I read a post some where about them being 38lbs lighter then the power boxes. UPS tracking # says shipping weight is 14lb.... hmm....