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routeing the fuel line over the vavle cover
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11265		 Page 2 of 4
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Sun Dec 26, 2004 11:29 am ]
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Well, see, there y'go, just another example that supports my hard-and-fast rule: NO FRAM FILTERS on my vehicles.

Fram has produced mostly crap for the last 10 to 15 years.
Agreed.

('cept I still use their cheapo fuel filters so I can see what's happening!)

On all my tried-and-true, no fuel-system-contamination-issues vehicles, I use WIX for everything, including their metal fuel filters. Fram is crap!

D/W
Author:  KenG [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:04 am ]
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I concur! Best thing I ever did was to get rid of the Fram junk. Also, be sure to mount your fuel filter vertically, its amazing what bubbly fuel does to driveability at highway speeds.

Now about the fuel line, I kept the metal line from fuel pump to filter, then used hose from filter to carb. I didn't like how the filter would flop around against the alternator and fenderwell.

Ken

ps
I thought the glass fuel bowl was really cool but safety comes first. Anyone remember when the gas pumps had the glass sight and propeller to confirm fuel flow? They aslo dinged at every gallon...
Author:  gmader [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Fram horror story
Hi all,

On my daily driver, an Audi, Fram oil filters caused the oil pressure alert to come on whenever I drove up the 4000+' mountain on my way home from work. I changed to a Wix/Napa filter, and the problem stopped immediately. So, I too can confirm problems with Fram filters.

Hope that helps somebody,

Greg
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:22 am ]
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I kept the metal line from fuel pump to filter, then used hose from filter to carb. I didn't like how the filter would flop around against the alternator and fenderwell.
If the filter was "flopping" at all, you did it wrong.
Author:  mighty mouse 63 [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:10 pm ]
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Guess i've been lucky, my only failure with a Fram involved an air filter, leave it in place, constant stall, remove it, condition goes away and this filter had less then 200 miles on it! Sad, what has happened to Fram, guess the allure of chinese labor was too tempting which why I now use only WIX.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:14 pm ]
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This is what happens when MBA's and marketeers instead of engineers run engineered-product companies.
Author:  74W100/6 [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Fram...
Have any of you seen the machines at the auto part stores that breath through different air filters and blow the ball up the tube to show how much air flow there is? ITS AMAZING how big the differences are. I saw three different brands tested, Wix, Fram and some other POS. Of course wix breathed the best but man the other two totally sucked.
Author:  argentina-slantsixer [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:02 pm ]
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what about using copper tube on the fuel line? does fuel affects copper? just asking cuz I'be been considering about moving to a metal fuel line and seems like the general consense is using steel.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:12 pm ]
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what about using copper tube on the fuel line? does fuel affects copper? just asking cuz I'be been considering about moving to a metal fuel line and seems like the general consense is using steel.

EEEK! No! Never use copper for fuel or brake lines; it's very unsafe in both applications. Copper work-hardens and with constant vibrations will break. And yes, copper reacts chemically with gasoline.
Author:  argentina-slantsixer [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:19 pm ]
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of course, it'll be too easy! f..k ... i guess I'll have to bend the steel thing then ;-(

what about other soft metal? (ha, the guy still ain't wanna work hard, huh? )
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:41 pm ]
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of course, it'll be too easy! f..k ... i guess I'll have to bend the steel thing then ;-(

what about other soft metal? (ha, the guy still ain't wanna work hard, huh? )
You talking about the long line from the fuel tank to the fuel pump, or the short one from the pump to the carb?
Author:  argentina-slantsixer [ Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:41 am ]
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pump 2 carb

I have braided hose lines from tank and TO tank (I run a de-vaporizer thingy that allows the pump to work with fresh gas each time and wouldn't overpressure at high RPM's, the pump goes to that device and then from that device one hose returns to the tank and the other goes to the carb)

I wanna get soft metal (or steel, but metal anyway) line from this device to the carb.

How it's exactly that copper reacts with fuel? (not diesel) carbs has a lot of pieces that contains copper (not 100% copper but still present in the alloy) what about brass and bronze? or nickel silver?

And as far as vibrations are concerned... I'm a woodwind repair tech, and we've been using brass and copper for instruments and pieces that are constantly exposed to vibrations and actually PRODUCING vibrations without cracking even after over 80 or 100 or you name it years period.

besides, if goes from pump to carb, how can the line vibrate so badly that a soft tube breaks? only if you have an electric pump fixed to the firewall and engine torque is permanently figting the metal line... I would think that this doesn't happens with stock pump.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:56 am ]
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pump 2 carb
And the problem with using the method described (eliminating the metal line) is...?
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I wanna get soft metal (or steel, but metal anyway) line from this device to the carb.
Because...?
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How it's exactly that copper reacts with fuel?
I used to know the chemical equations, but have forgotten them with time. The effect is to make the gasoline oxidize much more rapidly.
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carbs has a lot of pieces that contains copper
Can't think of any offhand. The float in a Carter is brass, so is the inlet needle and seat, but brass is not copper. Remember that alloying a metal changes its characteristics, often radically. Can't think of any bronze parts in the average \6 carburetor, either, but bronze also is not copper.

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what about nickel silver?
What about it...?
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And as far as vibrations are concerned... I'm a woodwind repair tech, and we've been using brass and copper for instruments and pieces that are constantly exposed to vibrations and actually PRODUCING vibrations without cracking
Certainly. But remember, those pieces are specifically designed to vibrate without breaking, unlike copper tubing. Also, they're not used in hot and cold temperature extremes, unlike what's found in an auto engine compartment. Also, the consequences of a failure in a musical instrument is a spoiled performance, but the consequences of a failure in a fuel line is a fire, extensive damage, and the very real possibility of grave injury and/or death.
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if goes from pump to carb, how can the line vibrate so badly that a soft tube breaks?
High amplitude is not required to work-harden copper tubing such that it breaks. Just normal engine vibrations will do it.
Author:  argentina-slantsixer [ Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:30 pm ]
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And the problem with using the method described (eliminating the metal line) is...?
don't wanna eliminate my metal line, wanna get a new metal line over my valvle cover
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Because...?
to avoid some issues like gas boiling or that kinda stuff thatmisplacing of fuel line produces
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I used to know the chemical equations, but have forgotten them with time. The effect is to make the gasoline oxidize much more rapidly.
that's all I need to know. Won't be using copper then

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Can't think of any offhand. The float in a Carter is brass, so is the inlet needle and seat, but brass is not copper. Remember that alloying a metal changes its characteristics, often radically. Can't think of any bronze parts in the average \6 carburetor, either, but bronze also is not copper.
I forgot the characteristics change when alloying.... :oops: I agree with you in that there's no 100% copper pieces

Quote:
Certainly. But remember, those pieces are specifically designed to vibrate without breaking, unlike copper tubing. Also, they're not used in hot and cold temperature extremes, unlike what's found in an auto engine compartment. Also, the consequences of a failure in a musical instrument is a spoiled performance, but the consequences of a failure in a fuel line is a fire, extensive damage, and the very real possibility of grave injury and/or death.
most of the pieces I'm referring to is just very close to plain copper tubing. I give yo that the working temp range is not so extended, but if you think that injuries or death can't come from a bad musical performance, you never listened to some felows I have :lol: :lol: I see your point. Will be using steel.
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Author:  GunPilot [ Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:56 pm ]
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Friends don't let friends filter with Frams.
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