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 Post subject: What the heck??
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:53 am 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 5:09 am
Posts: 1167
Location: Troy, Texas
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Yesterday, I was riding with Aaron in his Dart and he reminded me that it recently started pulling to the left. Running about 30 mph, he let go of the steering wheel and the car immediately dove hard to the left. I thought he meant it would gradually tail off a straight line course. This sucker went HARD to the left.

We were going to a welding supply shop, so once we got there, I got down and took a quick look underneath. The first thing I noticed was the lower control arm bump stops were toast. The passenger side was being crushed by the frame, and the driver side was gone completely, leaving about 1-1/2" space between the frame and control arm.

Granted, we put the old ones back on when we rebuilt the car, but they seemed to be OK at the time. I guess the hammering they have gotten in the past year, since Aaron began driving the car, finally took its toll on them. That's alright, we'll replace them this week while he is on Spring break (if I can find some).

Here's the question:

Should this have anything to do with how the car dives to the left? After the welding shop, we took his car to the shop that originally did the alignment. They said the steering issue was not uncommon for these old Darts, and it was probably the proportioning valve on top of the steering gear box. He suggested slightly loosening the two mounting bolts and lightly tapping the valve sideways towards the left side. After a quick test drive, we will know if that fixed the steering or if it needs a little more adjustment.

It sounds reasonable that the steering issue could be in the gear box, but there is one other thing I noticed last night as Aaron was changing his engine oil and had the car up on stands. The driver side torsion bar adjusting bolt was not seated in the hole/recess on the bottom of the adjuster. It was slightly off to the side. I don't know if that would matter or not, but we are going to back the bolt off and get it into the hole where it belongs.

I guess what I am asking is if the ride height has been compromised by the torsion bar adjuster being misaligned, causing the bump stops to be destroyed (age being a factor), causing the front to sag more on the driver side, causing the car to swerve? That really doesn't seem to make sense, because the ride height was originally set to specs and should not have allowed the front end to sit on the bump stops anyway. Aren't they there just to prevent over-travel.

I know there is the possibility that some of this is purely coincidence, but the fact remains that the car is not safe in its present condition. Our course of action is to replace the bump stops, check ride height, test drive, adjust gear box valve as instructed by professional, test drive, repeat as necessary.

Let me know what you think,
Jerry

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 Post subject: Re: What the heck??
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24556
Location: North America
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Quote:
They said the steering issue was not uncommon for these old Darts
Danger, danger, warning, warning. Any time somebody starts saying "Oh, yeah, they all had that problem", the hair on the back of my neck stands up. It's true there are issues and problems that are commonly seen on any
particular vehicle, but more often than not, this line really means "I don't know how to fix it".
Quote:
He suggested slightly loosening the two mounting bolts and lightly tapping the valve sideways towards the left side.
The valve body cannot be moved to the left or right, it can only be moved forward or rearward. Don't remember which way you tap to correct which type of leading, but the service procedure is to put the front of the car on jackstands, point the wheels straight ahead, and start the engine. If the wheels immediately self-steer to either direction (left, in your case) then a valve body adjustment may well fix it. If they do not, then your leads-to-the-left problem is probably being caused by some part of the suspension system being broken, worn, or maladjusted.

If the wheels do self-steer when you start the engine, then shut off the engine, loosen the two valve body bolts and tighten them down to only 7 lb-ft (i.e., finger-tight). Start the engine again and gently tap the valve body forward and rearward until it becomes apparent which direction to move the valve body to correct self-steer to the left. You may need to apply a series of delicate taps to get the valve body positioned just right so the car doesn't self-steer in either direction. Then, tighten the valve body back down to its proper torque value of 200 lb-in. This might not be a bad time to replace the two O-rings under the valve body.

Quote:
The driver side torsion bar adjusting bolt was not seated in the hole/recess on the bottom of the adjuster. It was slightly off to the side. I don't know if that would matter or not, but we are going to back the bolt off and get it into the hole where it belongs.
Very good idea, and adjust both bars to spec per the FSM. Gross differences betwen adjustment of the LH and RH torsion bar can easily cause the vehicle to lead to one side.
Quote:
I guess what I am asking is if the ride height has been compromised by the torsion bar adjuster being misaligned
Probably! If the bump stops are being visibly crunched between the A-arm and the frame, then yeah, something is very badly out of kilter, for as you note, the bump stops are only to prevent overtravel.
Quote:
adjust gear box valve as instructed by professional
"Professional" who knows so much about Mopars he thinks this problem happens to "all of them" and suggests moving the valve body in a direction it cannot move, eh? :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:15 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 7:27 pm
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Location: Park Forest, Illinoisy
Car Model: 68 Valiant
Sounds like it may have broken the anchor for the torsion bar out of the K-frame. Back off both bars and check the K. :shock:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:38 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:00 pm
Posts: 2955
Location: kankakee IL
Car Model: 80 volare, 78 fury 2 dr, 85 D150
the bump stops have nothing to do with the car pulling. Ive seen many cars with them missing entirely (old age) that drove perfectly. Check it out as Dan suggested, start the car WITHOUT touching the steering wheel to see if it self steers. Torsion bar adjustment will also have a ton of effect on your alignment. (as an alignment guy, many brands of newer 4WD trucks use an adjustable torsion bar setup, you wouldn't believe how many S-10s that came in off the scale, brought into specs just by correcting torsion bar adjustment issues, or trucks that "couldn't be adjusted" because there "wasn't enuf range to get within spec" that suddenly became adjustable with the given range once torsion bar adjustment was corrected!) You can watch your readings change as you adjust them as its connected to the alignment machine. I so often hear of people wanting to lower their car that have no idea of this!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:29 am 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:49 pm
Posts: 566
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As far as adjusting the valve body on the steering. If it worked before but is now the problem there is probably an internal leak and it or the box will need to be rebuilt. It is one of those things that should never need to be adjusted after it is set once. It is not likely the problem anyway.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:31 am 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:49 pm
Posts: 566
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As far as adjusting the valve body on the steering. If it worked before but is now the problem there is probably an internal leak and it or the box will need to be rebuilt. It is one of those things that should never need to be adjusted after it is set once. It is not likely the problem anyway.


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