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Forum locked  This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 7 posts ] 
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2001 5:48 pm 
First the car...
73 dodge dart with 3 year in a row top 10 in the world stereo system.
Originally:
Slant 6 with 1 bbl holley
10" front drum 9" rear drum
light 3 speed tranny with only one synchro
7.25 axle
Now:
74 on 5.2-5.9 liter radiator
Super six accesories off volare...2bbl, air
cleaner with inlet attachment and exhaust header.
I ran cool air ram style from the front of
the car.
100 amp alternator
230 full forward synchro tranny
shortened driveshaft 1"
8 1/4 axle with the accompaning 11" drums.
Have the disc brakes but not installed yet.

I've done tons of other stuff as well but they
are less important.
Anywho...The engine has 200,000 and is getting
tired. At it's peak I was getting 30+mpg freeway
and 18 city. (2.76 gears) I want to rebuild the
engine but didn't know if I was going to
just get a rebuild kit or if you guys had ideas.
It see's in city and highway driving with the
occasional long trip. I'd like to get better low
mid power/torque. I'm not concerned with mileage
being terrific, just livable. And it has to drive
year round in the
Houston tx area. (no freezes to worry about)
Occasionally pulls a trailer.
Mild cam?
Raise compression?
Port work on the head?

To give you an idea of the condition of the engine:
I have one piston with enough dropped compression
to miss at idle. A tiny bit of oil smoke during shifts.
Quiet bearings.
Only the rear main seal leaks.
Mileage down to 20mpg.
Doesn't start right up every time.
Plugs seem to look like there is a healthy burn.

Sorry bout the text, I cut and pasted this from
another board


Image
spldart@yahoo.com


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2001 11:30 am 
The "low" compression reading could be from a "weak" valve, did you have a "leak-down" check done??
SL6 performance is about engine "breathing", one suggestion would be to spend some time and money on a "nice" ported and prepped cylinder head, swap that on first to see if it "helps or hurts". (sometimes a "tight" sealing head just make ring sealing on a high milage engine worse)

If you find the rest of the engine needs rebuilding, go do a "short block" and swap your "trick" head onto it. This approch can save you a bunch of money if the rest of the "short block" is OK or worst case, you are "out" one extra head gasket.
DD
Quote:
: First the car...
: 73 dodge dart with 3 year in a row top 10 in
: the world stereo system.
: Originally: Slant 6 with 1 bbl holley
: 10" front drum 9" rear drum
: light 3 speed tranny with only one synchro
: 7.25 axle
: Now: 74 on 5.2-5.9 liter radiator
: Super six accesories off volare...2bbl, air
: cleaner with inlet attachment and exhaust
: header.
: I ran cool air ram style from the front of
: the car.
: 100 amp alternator
: 230 full forward synchro tranny
: shortened driveshaft 1"
: 8 1/4 axle with the accompaning 11" drums.
: Have the disc brakes but not installed yet.
:
: I've done tons of other stuff as well but they
: are less important.
: Anywho...The engine has 200,000 and is getting
: tired. At it's peak I was getting 30+mpg
: freeway
: and 18 city. (2.76 gears) I want to rebuild the
: engine but didn't know if I was going to
: just get a rebuild kit or if you guys had
: ideas.
: It see's in city and highway driving with the
: occasional long trip. I'd like to get better
: low
: mid power/torque. I'm not concerned with
: mileage
: being terrific, just livable. And it has to
: drive
: year round in the
: Houston tx area. (no freezes to worry about)
: Occasionally pulls a trailer.
: Mild cam?
: Raise compression?
: Port work on the head?
:
: To give you an idea of the condition of the
: engine: I have one piston with enough
: dropped compression
: to miss at idle. A tiny bit of oil smoke during
: shifts.
: Quiet bearings.
: Only the rear main seal leaks.
: Mileage down to 20mpg.
: Doesn't start right up every time.
: Plugs seem to look like there is a healthy
: burn.
:
: Sorry bout the text, I cut and pasted this from
: another board


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2001 9:10 pm 
Quote:
: The "low" compression reading could
: be from a "weak" valve, did you
: have a "leak-down" check done??
: SL6 performance is about engine
: "breathing", one suggestion would
: be to spend some time and money on a
: "nice" ported and prepped cylinder
: head, swap that on first to see if it
: "helps or hurts". (sometimes a
: "tight" sealing head just make
: ring sealing on a high milage engine worse)
:
: If you find the rest of the engine needs
: rebuilding, go do a "short block"
: and swap your "trick" head onto
: it. This approch can save you a bunch of
: money if the rest of the "short
: block" is OK or worst case, you are
: "out" one extra head gasket.
: DD


Quick question. If I pull the head this weekend and look into the condition of the two valves on the weak cylinder what would I look for. Would it be possible to do a quick 'patch' repair to regain a little compression on that cylinder if it is valve related and have that patch last a few months until I get a long block completed?
If so what would be involved? Could a new valve and some lapping in tide this thing over for a few months. (I really hate listening to the puh puh puh in my daily driver :( )
Otherwise it's a reliable engine.
Oh, and is it practical to think that a 200k engine could be just suffering from a bad valve seal? I know you can't give very solid answers to these questions without looking at the engine torn down yourself but just give a rough guess.
I won't have a new engine to put in for several months :(

Thanks :~)


spldart@yahoo.com


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2001 11:21 pm 
I can not tell a lie.....I have "patched" a lot of burnt valve(s) over the years. Actually got pretty quick at it by leaving the manifold and even the carb bolted to the head as I removed the entire assembly with a "cherry picker".

I would set the head up-side-down on a pair of saw horses and check the valve seal by pouring solvent (raw gas) into the chambers. Sometimes the damage is real obvious with a "pie slice" right out of the exhaust valve.

With a couple of used valves and lapping compound, you can can *sometimes* get a new seat "rubbed-on" the old surface, then just plop the head back on with a new gasket.

Other times I would find the seat is badly recessed or unevenly worn to the point where a "seat cutter" or even a "false seat" must be used. I learded to have a "good used" head on-hand as a "plan - "B" back-up" if I ran into a really trashed head. (Having to swap the manifolds over to the other head always slowed down the job!)
DD
Quote:
:
: Quick question. If I pull the head this weekend
: and look into the condition of the two
: valves on the weak cylinder what would I
: look for. Would it be possible to do a quick
: 'patch' repair to regain a little
: compression on that cylinder if it is valve
: related and have that patch last a few
: months until I get a long block completed?
: If so what would be involved? Could a new valve
: and some lapping in tide this thing over for
: a few months. (I really hate listening to
: the puh puh puh in my daily driver :( )
: Otherwise it's a reliable engine.
: Oh, and is it practical to think that a 200k
: engine could be just suffering from a bad
: valve seal? I know you can't give very solid
: answers to these questions without looking
: at the engine torn down yourself but just
: give a rough guess.
: I won't have a new engine to put in for several
: months :(
:
: Thanks :~)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2001 6:56 pm 
Quote:
: I can not tell a lie.....I have
: "patched" a lot of burnt valve(s)
: over the years. Actually got pretty quick at
: it by leaving the manifold and even the carb
: bolted to the head as I removed the entire
: assembly with a "cherry picker".


ooo, I hadn't thougt about just pulling it with the manifolds still attached :)
:
: I would set the head up-side-down on a pair of
: saw horses and check the valve seal by
: pouring solvent (raw gas) into the chambers.
: Sometimes the damage is real obvious with a
: "pie slice" right out of the
: exhaust valve.

Cool idea, thanks :)
:
: With a couple of used valves and lapping
: compound, you can can *sometimes* get a new
: seat "rubbed-on" the old surface,
: then just plop the head back on with a new
: gasket.

Could I just order a couple of new valves and when I have the new gasket and valves I can proceed with this possiblity? I have done valve work on small engine/bike.
:
: Other times I would find the seat is badly
: recessed or unevenly worn to the point where
: a "seat cutter" or even a
: "false seat" must be used. I
: learded to have a "good used" head
: on-hand as a "plan - "B"
: back-up" if I ran into a really trashed
: head. (Having to swap the manifolds over to
: the other head always slowed down the job!)
: DD

If I find the seat is badly buggered up (which I don't think is the case since the plug looks good and I think it starts firing around 2 to 2.5krpm and sometimes lower) is a replacement head my best option and I just need to bolt this one back on without doing anything?

Another bit of info. When cranking you can hear the weak cylinder with the rrr rrr rrr rrr reer rrr rrr rrr........ At idle it misses reliably. And when you get the rpm up the miss goes intermittent and then dissappears as you get the engine to a good speed.


spldart@yahoo.com


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:23 am 
Quote:
: ooo, I hadn't thougt about just pulling it with
: the manifolds still attached :)
:
: Cool idea, thanks :)
:
: Could I just order a couple of new valves and
: when I have the new gasket and valves I can
: proceed with this possiblity? I have done
: valve work on small engine/bike.
:
: If I find the seat is badly buggered up (which
: I don't think is the case since the plug
: looks good and I think it starts firing
: around 2 to 2.5krpm and sometimes lower) is
: a replacement head my best option and I just
: need to bolt this one back on without doing
: anything?
:
: Another bit of info. When cranking you can hear
: the weak cylinder with the rrr rrr rrr rrr
: reer rrr rrr rrr........ At idle it misses
: reliably. And when you get the rpm up the
: miss goes intermittent and then dissappears
: as you get the engine to a good speed.


I think you have a "good shot" at a successful "patch-job" on this one.

If you need a few "good used" exhaust valves or even a good used "spare" head, (or both) let me know.
DD


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2001 5:02 pm 
Quote:
: ooo, I hadn't thougt about just pulling it with
: the manifolds still attached :)
:
: Cool idea, thanks :)
:
: Could I just order a couple of new valves and
: when I have the new gasket and valves I can
: proceed with this possiblity? I have done
: valve work on small engine/bike.
:
: If I find the seat is badly buggered up (which
: I don't think is the case since the plug
: looks good and I think it starts firing
: around 2 to 2.5krpm and sometimes lower) is
: a replacement head my best option and I just
: need to bolt this one back on without doing
: anything?
:
: Another bit of info. When cranking you can hear
: the weak cylinder with the rrr rrr rrr rrr
: reer rrr rrr rrr........ At idle it misses
: reliably. And when you get the rpm up the
: miss goes intermittent and then dissappears
: as you get the engine to a good speed.


I've got a burned exhaust valve in my 220,000 mile /6 also. #6 exhaust. I can hear it firing through the header tube, and at idle, it rocks the whole car ('71 Valiant) like a Race Hemi. It's a real P.I.T.A., but once it's above idle speed it goes away. A compression test showed 100 psi in #5 cylinder, and 5 (FIVE!) psi in #6. Can't wait to get the new engine running.


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