So I parked the Dart a few months back, after I had trouble shifting gears. You can see my post, with the full story/description here: http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25895

I finally made the time to fully diagnose things this week. I decided my problem lay in the Hurst shifter... So I removed, disassembled, cleaned, lubed, reassembled, and reinstalled it. -Keep in mind I am flying by the seat of my pants here, as I have no knowledge of these things or books to follow- On the upside, I have now determined that the shifter was (is) my problem. On the downside, I now can't engage any gear at all. There is little to no movement whatsoever in the shift lever... Thinking it over, I haven't been able to figure out what is up. It all seems so straight forward...

So I'm just curios if anyone has adjusted, or messed with any of these shifters that could point me in the right direction? '76 Dart Swinger/225/A-833 Thanks.

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The shift mechanism is a fairly simple item, it's a matter or washing the parts out with solvent, making sure there's no 'sand' or dirt in there, using some quality grease on the parts then reassembling it...

The only part that is a wear item is a little nylon 'washer' that spaces the shift arms apart a bit, and if 'gone' you'll have to find some in a dormann parts bin. or call Hurst directly and ask for them... if you got the shift parts in the right spots you should be able to bolt it to the tranny and 'row' the gears easily before you hook the shift rods up...

If all is well, you will need to line all 3 shift 'tabs' up in neutral and insert a 1/4" punch on nail through the holes in the tabs and the 'dimple' at the base of the shifter body... then manually shift the tranny using the gear tabs on the body into neutral, hook up all the shift levers at that point adjusting as necessary and be sure to use a set of good 'clips' to retain them (a cotter pin at worst, but be prepared to have it get old/stressed and lose a shift rod off the shifter one day speeding down the interstate).


Hope that helps, that's something I've been meaning to do as a follow up to the A-833OD article, an article on the hurst shifter recondition and the inland 3 spd on the floor shifter...

Best of luck,

-D.Idiot

I don't know what you're talking about here, so mine must be 'gone'. haha I did have thin steel shims/washers inbetween most all the levers.
Isn't that what got me here to start with?

Thanks again, I'll pull it apart again in the morning... Oh well, I guess the headers for on my truck can wait for another day.

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Summit sells "Pit Packs" which contain replacement bushings for the Hurst Competition Plus shifter. The "Street Kit" (HUU-3320001) has nylon bushings while the "Race Kit" (HUU-3327302) has steel. Each kit costs $9.95.

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obliquely-inclined state of mind

Zorg,

I really like working on these trannies and the shifters, and both really are simple to do. Rob (DusterIdiot) is THE MAN on these and his article and his suggestions to you on this thread are right on.

However, re reading your first post (thanks for the link!) makes me think that I might even go further back if it were me, or even for the sake of teaching myself something (I did). I wouldn't discount entirely the possibility that the tranny has an internal problem. It is easy to check.

Easier if tranny is out of vehicle, but if not that is ok. If in mash clutch and block it so it is released from the flywheel and the tranny can turn freely.
Doing so if if the driveshaft is attached will mean you must jack up the driving wheel or wheels in the case of positraction, so the output shaft can turn.

Grab the output yoke or driveshaft and rotate the output shaft with all the tranny s up so tranny is in neutral. Listen for grinding or see if you have binding there. If not, move tabs to select a gear, again turn the ouptput shaft. A little fiddling to change gears will show you what I mean and you won't hurt anything. If you get the gears jammed, wiggle the output shaft while wiggling a tab and you can get released.

Make notes of what you are doing and positions of the tabs for each gear. You can tell 1st from 2d, 3rd, 4th and reverse easily by feel or by watching number of turns ration between in and out shafts (turning output in 1st makes in go much faster than turning out in 4th, which is about 1:1) . Note if your tabs are loose or wobbly, indicating internal fork problems or loose fork case bushings, maybe. If all is well, you will now know where rods have to be for each shifter selection, and you can attach the rods to the tabs and shifter.

BE CERTAIN to do what DI is saying, line up the tabs on the shifter so that you can put a pin through the little hole in each to lock the shifter in neutral. Put your tabs in neutral, then attach your rods to the shifter tabs in neutral. Remove your pin and try shifting, slow at first then faster and faster. You should expect to get a little jamming, so you can then undo a rod and either tighten it or loosen it, re attach and re try. In just a few trys you will get each rod adjusted to the optimal length between the tab and rod. You are then good to go and you will have learned a lot about what is going on in the whole shifting and power line system.

It takes less time to do this than to write it down!

rock
'64d100

Sorry for the short post. I get logged off since I type too slow... (hey, if I just keep editing it I can make this work...)

Thanks all for the help. I printed off Rock's post and took it under the car with me. Went over it all step by step. Everything checked ok, and the rods hooked straight up without adjusting (they were still connected on the tranny end).

Everything rows fine except the 3-2 downshift. It won't go into 2nd, but goes in fine from 1st? Also, just before I came in, it will no longer go into reverse from Neutral or 1-2. Goes in fine from 3-4, but is hard to get back out (won't 'pop' out like normal)? I'll play with this a little more later. It's the downshift that has me concerned.

(simply for what it's worth, I did adjust the 1-2 rod both directions in an attempt to fix the 3-2 downshift, but to no avail. So I put everything back to how I found it {hey, it's worked for 200,000 miles so far...})

I have seen nothing like what Red posted the part#'s for (thanks for those #'s though!). Nor can I figure out where they would go, as I didn't appear to be missing anything, everything inside went together and fit together well.

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This is where things get a bit 'iffy'... if you are rowing the gears with the engine off/not moving and the tranny is 'static' and you can get the gears to 'row' just line you siad, then something is wrong inside... (I'm thinking synchronizers might be a bit worn... or in another case, the pilot bushing may be bound up with not enough lubricant and the input shaft is 'stuck' to the pilot bushing/ crank...)...


Can you row the gears with the engine running? If not we'll be looking at the pilot bushing may need lubricant (pull tranny, oil/ a finger tip of 'quality' grease in the pilot hole), or the synchronizers are a bit worn and don't like to 'mesh' thing's up when shifting...(aka if you can get it to work by 'double clutching'-rev shift to neutral- rev- shift to gear like Steve McQueen or Bud Eckins..)... at that point it's a 'get the rebuild kit with new brass synchros' and follow the article I wrote on rebuilding the A-833OD...


Hope to hear more soon, buddy... be methodical...

-D.Idiot

Thanks for the tips - I'm trying to rebuild my shifter right now. Does anyone know where to get replacement parts, like the hollow sleeve that holds the tabs together? Mine is worn pretty badly.
Bill
Hillsboro, OR
69 Cuda

Zorg,

See, you have really advanced quuite far to problem resolution....evenif you may not feel like it right now! By your work to date you are arriving at the next diagnostic step that Rob shared with you...when can you row, and when not? I merely double clutched for a long time....obviously a synchro problem though I didn't know about any of that stuff at the time.

Then one day I read Rob's article and I thought "I can do that" and I did and the sychros I had and one fork were worn out. So where to get a kit? I got mine from Moparts P+S on ebay and I have their phone number and all if they are not using that name now. GREAT person to deal with, returns call, emails and will sell any one part or a kit. I bought a kit because I figured if I was in that far, why not make it a new tranny. Which by the way, includes putting a new 308 thrust bearing in the case front. That bearing is the one in the 440 trannny and may be overkill, but if you are in there....

Other than Rob's article I got a FSM copy of tranny rebuilding from a forum member, copies of the old Mopar magazine rebuild articles, and an older all vehicle book whose name I don't recall now and it is out in the shop. I read each carfully and each has a tad different info that is useful. I made me a flow chart of what I wanted to do in order of how to do it.

I took a spring day and laid a 4 x8 piece of particle board on some sawhorses to use as a table so I could spread everything out including my books. Get a BIG snap ring plier from harbor Freight for the ring holding on the tailhousing. Arrange with a friend to use a press if you don't have one, get some grease cleaner, rags and grease. Leave about 4 hours to slowly take it all apart and TAKE PICTURES OF EVERY STEP! Taking pics will help you slow down if nothing else, and upon reassembly be very helpful too. YOu will enjoy them in your project book later.

This really is an easy task, it largely is one like bookkeeping....keep up with a lot of parts! As far as mechanical goes it is just not difficult, you even get to sit down at your little table. I bet I can take one apart now in 45 mins, but for time one, allow all morning.

Only TWO real perils: (1) when it comes time to remove synchros you MUST try to be sure they don't slide to the front of the input shaft or they will fly apart. Of course mine did, and it was no big deal, but as Rob's article shows you would prefer not to have to "index" the little inside parts since you haven't seen them and don't know what they are until they and the little springs fly out on the table. I now tie mine all together with very fine wire for dis and re assembly and pull the wire out. (2) When removing the reverse pawl on the case there is a spring and ball bearing in there....DON"T LOSE EM.

It seems to me I could pull out my mainshaft without removing the front plug merely be removing the key at the rear side of the case. I don't remember. If not, be aware the usual recommendation is to drill a hole in the front plug, insert a pin and drive against the countershatt to kncok it out. If you do this you will need to look up a a plug ahead of time and I secure mine with that 3M sticky yellow rubber part glue. Oh, I go the extraordinary length of putting in a pint of gear oil and turning the tranny nose down overnight to see if there are any leaks. You don't want to do all this only to have a leak and have it ruin a clutch.

Also, I use a wood broomstick for counter shaft replacement. I have pics of all of this and would mail you a CD if you want, but really it is a task of take it apart, think about what you are doing, and put it back together. you will feel might good when you do it and hit the road with a tranny YOU rebuilt.

Any questions? ASK ROB!!

rock
'64d100

Bill, try searching on summitracing.com It looked like they had some replacement stuff, don't recall if they had the piece you're after?

Ok, so I went out into the shop today and got the Dart started, the clutch and tranny seemed to shift fine, but the car wouldn't move? Then I realized it was still on jackstands... All jokes aside, in my tests both in the shop and then out on the road, I had the same symptoms as last night when it was 'static'. I take that back, I did get the 3-2 downshift no problem once or twice when I was on the street. Never enough to diagnose the when/why part though, unfortunately. And I just remembered, when I would shift into 3rd (and I'm referring to the act of moving the lever over and up, not letting out the clutch to actually engage it), there was a slight 'clunk'. Not a nasty bang or grinding, but more of a friendly affirmation of of the action. No weird sounds when engaged, not hard to get it in, just a little 'click'.

My street test was cut short because my memory was about the same (short). I had intended to run up to the parts store and get some new hitch pin clips for the linkages, so yesterday when I was adjusting things, I just stuffed cotter pins through them, not bent or anything. I actually made it around the block a couple times before one of the cotter pins fell out, letting the linkage slip, and leaving me stuck in second gear... haha It took me a looong minute to figure that one out! All I can say is good thing I live at the bottom of a hill...

So my mind here is telling me that it's the shifter still a little out of whack. Maybe just because I don't feel like taking the time to rebuild right now? I don't know, I guess it just doesn't seem "bad", just a little "off"... Now the 435 in my '73 Crew Cab is a different story. :)

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