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 Post subject: F.I. questions
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2001 6:02 pm 
I realize the batch fire setup would be ideal but I have come across a complete 1988 olds 3.8 with a seq. F.I. setup. WHat all can I use from the 88 with the computer from the batch fire setup mentioned in dibiase's article? RIght now I have everything off the 88 so...I will attempt to see what part numbers interchange as far as the injectors and all, but does anybody know for sure?

glovert@southwestern.edu


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 Post subject: Re: F.I. questions
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2001 7:57 pm 
Quote:
: I realize the batch fire setup would be ideal
: but I have come across a complete 1988 olds
: 3.8 with a seq. F.I. setup. WHat all can I
: use from the 88 with the computer from the
: batch fire setup mentioned in dibiase's
: article? RIght now I have everything off the
: 88 so...I will attempt to see what part
: numbers interchange as far as the injectors
: and all, but does anybody know for sure?


I'm quite sure that everything from the '88 is compatable with the earlier batch fire ECM except the wiring to the injectors. I believe that the TPS is configured differently on the '88 (actuating lever on the bottom as opposed to the top), but the resistance values should be the same and the ECM won't know the difference.

Bob D


BBobbias@aol.com


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 Post subject: Re: F.I. questions
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2001 9:17 pm 
Quote:
: I'm quite sure that everything from the '88 is
: compatable with the earlier batch fire ECM
: except the wiring to the injectors. I
: believe that the TPS is configured
: differently on the '88 (actuating lever on
: the bottom as opposed to the top), but the
: resistance values should be the same and the
: ECM won't know the difference.
:
: Bob D


SO you think all I will probably need is the computer and wiring from the batch fire setup? I have not actually inventoried all of the stuff I have (It is at the place I worked before I went off to school and I figured I would rob it all since no one was using it. Tomorrow I am going to get what all I did not pull off today.) But I should be able to figure out exactly what I have. I think there is a MAF sensor and then the throttle body, injectors, and connectors to the various components-I actually have the whole harness for what it is worth. Should I grab anything else since I can have anything off the car and this is all free right now. Whatever I want, I have to get tomorrow.


glovert@southwestern.edu


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 Post subject: Re: F.I. questions
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2001 8:04 am 
Quote:
: SO you think all I will probably need is the
: computer and wiring from the batch fire
: setup? I have not actually inventoried all
: of the stuff I have (It is at the place I
: worked before I went off to school and I
: figured I would rob it all since no one was
: using it. Tomorrow I am going to get what
: all I did not pull off today.) But I should
: be able to figure out exactly what I have. I
: think there is a MAF sensor and then the
: throttle body, injectors, and connectors to
: the various components-I actually have the
: whole harness for what it is worth. Should I
: grab anything else since I can have anything
: off the car and this is all free right now.
: Whatever I want, I have to get tomorrow.


Get everything listed in my article except the ECM and fuel injector harness. You may even want to get those since they are free and you never know what you might want to do in the future. I'm pretty sure that you'll be able to use the main wiring harness from the '88. If you want to see the differences between the wiring of the '85 batch fire and the '88 sequential, get a copy of Chilton's General Motors Celebrity/Century/Ciera/6000 1982-95 Repair Manual (8252) 28360. The cost is only about $15. I would e-mail you copies of the wiring diagrams but my scanner is down.

Bob D



BBobbias@aol.com


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2001 6:25 pm 
I know you can drill an intake for the injectors but could you also (or rather) make a plate that that could be sandwiched in between the head and the intake/exhaust manifolds? The reason I would want to do something like this is so that I can switch intakes without having to have anything redrilled. I could use the stock intake to start with and then upgrade. It would be a bit of work to make the plate but time is free and I can do the work myself.

I am sure you know what I am talking about but I have a picture if I could only remember the password for my geocities acount.

glovert@southwestern.edu


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2001 7:34 pm 
Sorry guys- so geocities doesn't like the linking thing

THis is purely a mental excercise as of now but hey- I do not have access to any tool up at school- wait until spring break:-)

The injector plate is simply a plate an inch or so thick going across the whole head with the injectors mounted in it instead of in the intake. THe manifolds bolt up with studs going through the plate into the head. Is there someone else who has done something like this? WOuld it be possible to run dual dutra duals with a 4 or 5 inch long pipe connecting the rear manifold to a turbo and still clear a mini starter with the manifold spaced out that extra inch or so?
Quote:
:
: I know you can drill an intake for the
: injectors but could you also (or rather)
: make a plate that that could be sandwiched
: in between the head and the intake/exhaust
: manifolds? The reason I would want to do
: something like this is so that I can switch
: intakes without having to have anything
: redrilled. I could use the stock intake to
: start with and then upgrade. It would be a
: bit of work to make the plate but time is
: free and I can do the work myself.
:
: I am sure you know what I am talking about but
: I have a picture if I could only remember
: the password for my geocities acount.



glovert@southwestern.edu


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2002 11:56 am 
Quote:
: I know you can drill an intake for the
: injectors but could you also (or rather)
: make a plate that that could be sandwiched
: in between the head and the intake/exhaust
: manifolds? The reason I would want to do
: something like this is so that I can switch
: intakes without having to have anything
: redrilled. I could use the stock intake to
: start with and then upgrade. It would be a
: bit of work to make the plate but time is
: free and I can do the work myself.
:
: I am sure you know what I am talking about but
: I have a picture if I could only remember
: the password for my geocities account.


This is a great idea, infact, I have a casting design already "on paper" which uses a 9 inch "runner extension" insert to carry the EFI bosses and also add some ram effect. ( 9 inches provides manifold heat)

Like your spacer, any intake could be bolted to it, kinda like changing tops on a V8 tunnel ram manifold.

You have a good PIC, hope it is OK to post it. (always use the link and the image URL fields when trying to post PICs, a link is a good back-up.
DD



Image


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2002 12:30 pm 
I'm glad you were able post that. I am going to try and get my website up and hopefully useful soon. I will post any work I do on along with actual pics when possible. I will update you guys with any progress or whatever seems interesting along the way. It seems the ideas come easier than the time and money needed to do anything.
Quote:
:
: This is a great idea, infact, I have a casting
: design already "on paper" which
: uses a 9 inch "runner extension"
: insert to carry the EFI bosses and also add
: some ram effect. ( 9 inches provides
: manifold heat)
:
: Like your spacer, any intake could be bolted to
: it, kinda like changing tops on a V8 tunnel
: ram manifold.
:
: You have a good PIC, hope it is OK to post it.
: (always use the link and the image URL
: fields when trying to post PICs, a link is a
: good back-up.
: DD



glovert@southwestern.edu


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2002 6:53 pm 
Ok, you guys.....the idea looks very workable to me, (FWIW), but I do have concerns about the attaching method(s). We know that the spacer is going to have the same pattern as the manifold(s), so that means the studs in the heads are going to have to be longer.
Seems to me the additional stud length, combined with the added torque from the manifolds hanging out further may throw a wrench into the engineering.

I also suggest that the spacer/injector plate is going to have to be steel, in order to minimize the effects of different expansion/contraction rates between cast iron & aluminum.

GTS225@aol.com


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:44 pm 
Here's a shot of the EFI manifold on my Aussie Ford Crossflow 250. It has a separate injector plate that holds the injectors. The intake tubes bolt to this and curve over the valve cover, connecting to the plenum you see in this shot.

The advantage is that you can easily assemble different configurations to the injector plate. the downside is that you have to port match another piece and that it is one more potential manifold leak.

Image
mustangsix@fordsix.com


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2002 8:30 pm 
Quote:
: Here's a shot of the EFI manifold on my Aussie
: Ford Crossflow 250. It has a separate
: injector plate that holds the injectors.


Good looking set-up Jack, what is the 250 engine's bore / stroke and power output with that set-up?

I really wished Mopar would have made a factory EFI set-up for the Slant, things would be so much easer.
DD


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2002 9:00 pm 
Good points.

I wonder just how much moving around there would be if the plate were aluminum. I wouldn't want to have to machine that plate out of steel. I don't have access to CNC nor do I care to be as patient as steel would require me to be- that is moving a decent amount of metal. I am trying to figure exactly how much movement there would be. I know there will be differing expansion rates but how much?

Is there enough room around the existing bolt holes to enlarge them to 7/16" (I have never looked-the factory ones are 3/8" right)? Get good studs? Or build some type of supports for the manifolds. Spacing out just the intake wouldn't work would it? other ideas?
Quote:
:
: Ok, you guys.....the idea looks very workable
: to me, (FWIW), but I do have concerns about
: the attaching method(s). We know that the
: spacer is going to have the same pattern as
: the manifold(s), so that means the studs in
: the heads are going to have to be longer.
: Seems to me the additional stud length,
: combined with the added torque from the
: manifolds hanging out further may throw a
: wrench into the engineering.
:
: I also suggest that the spacer/injector plate
: is going to have to be steel, in order to
: minimize the effects of different
: expansion/contraction rates between cast
: iron & aluminum.



glovert@southwestern.edu


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2002 3:19 pm 
The engine is 3.72 (.040 over) x 3.91 for 252 cubic inches. Same as a US Ford 250. I haven't dynoed the engine, but the accelleration times lead me to think it's putting out about 200 hp at about 4800rpm. Gobs of torque.

The best thing about EFI is the tractablilty. I get all that HP and torque and still get 23-24 mpg in daily driving. Instant starts, no bogs or hesitation. 9.8:1 CR and can run regular fuel (thoug I can make more power on premium).

Image
mustangsix@fordsix.com


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 9:32 am 
Nice looking setup. The more I hear from you guys down under, the more I want to visit- or move. I wish a little more aussie stuff would finds its way to the states.
Quote:
:
: The engine is 3.72 (.040 over) x 3.91 for 252
: cubic inches. Same as a US Ford 250. I
: haven't dynoed the engine, but the
: accelleration times lead me to think it's
: putting out about 200 hp at about 4800rpm.
: Gobs of torque.
:
: The best thing about EFI is the tractablilty. I
: get all that HP and torque and still get
: 23-24 mpg in daily driving. Instant starts,
: no bogs or hesitation. 9.8:1 CR and can run
: regular fuel (thoug I can make more power on
: premium).



glovert@southwestern.edu


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 Post subject: Down under.....
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2002 5:46 pm 
I am down under, sort of.....I'm in Orlando, FL. I shipped two of these engines and a bunch of parts over from Australia last year.

mustangsix@fordsix.com


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