Any here very familiar with Caravans & Voyagers? I have a '95 Grand Voyager (3.3L & 2wl drive)with a strange idle/stumble issue. This usually starts happening only after a long time of driving. Hot or cold wheather does'nt seem to make a differance.

Any body have any good advise or help ???

Start with the basics:

Engine installed the wrong way.
Drive wheels on wrong end of car.
Kids in back need new movies.

Other than that I have no clue. Too many electrical widgets controlling other widgets to start guessing. But, do not despair, the factory will help you diagnose the problem.

Have you checked for codes?

Some codes can be a be brought up by turning the ignition key on & and off using a specified sequence, which I do not know.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

The first thing, I would do, is hook up a scanner, and check the live data. See if a sensor is "dropping out" or has a glitch, when the problem is occuring. A couple of things that can cause wierd problems on "computer" cars, are poor grounds (the age of your car makes this a possibility), and excessive AC ripple from the alternator. I would also do a fuel pressure/volume test.

This is assuming the normal maint/tune up items are in good shape.
(plugs, wires, cap, rotor, pcv, air filter, fuel filter, throttle body clean)

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225

Before you even hook up a scanner, see if the van will "tell you where it hurts" on its own. With the engine off, turn the ignition key on-off-on-off-on, never going past "on" into the start position, and leaving the key "on" after the third flick. Watch the "Check Engine" light. It will turn on, then turn off, then begin to flash-out any stored trouble codes. All codes are two digits, so if you get

*flash* (pause) *flash flash flash* (long pause) *flash flash* (pause) *flash*

then that's a 13 followed by a 21. A 55 means "end of codes". A 12 (sometimes not given) means "start of codes". So if you get a 12 and 55, or just a 55, there are no stored codes.

You cannot get as much info this way as you can with a scanner, but often you can get enough info to point you at the right system to check. But keep in mind, some systems can be faulty enough to create driveability problems without being far enough out of bounds to set a code. That's what you'd need a scanner to see. The oxygen sensor, for example, grows slow to react. The values it gives are within normal parameters, so it won't set a code, but it'll create driveability problems.

With that said: beyond the normal tune-up stuff, how old is the oxygen sensor? How long since the PCV system (the whole system, including all hoses, breather filters, and valve) was serviced?

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Thanks Dan for expanding on "check codes". My son showed me how to read codes several years ago on his Intrepid, but I had forgotten the details.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Usually the crank sensor or the cam sync sensor. Replace the crank sensor.

This is DIS ignition.

Cheers, Wizard

crank and cam sensors are very ornery on dodges. they don't just die most of the time so the best thing to do is scope the signals. the scanner won't always pick up the missing signal and the obd,s usualy won't till it stalls and can't start. also another sensor( map,tps,ext.) can pull down 5v supply voltage and cause cam or crank to miss

Nick

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Nick
86 d150 turbo /6.

I bought the van around a year ago with 60K original miles from the indirectly from the original owner. Overall the whole mini-van looks almost new for it's age but does have it's strange problems.

So far I have had the throtle body serviced, replaced the idle air control valve, changed the engine oil and had the computer codes checked. I've take it to 2 different EFI repair shops and both said that all of the codes came back clear.
I even took it to a transmission shop originally thinking that it was a lock-up torque converter problem but no dice. I'm thinking that it could possibly be the fuel pump losing pressure and or electrical current

Does it just miss like a spark plug some times? or does it spudder? fuel pumps will cause it to have no power, no upshift or even backfire when accelerating long before it affects idle. my guess is the shops didn't want to take the time to search for the problem,they just checked codes and said oh well.too bad you weren't closer . just have someone scope the sensors. or replace the crank sensor then the cam sensor if the first doesn't help

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Nick
86 d150 turbo /6.

That means whomever you're paying to do what you can do free of charge with the ignition key (see above) is being lazy. As previously mentioned, the codes are not a precise diagnostic, and there are many faults that can screw up the driveability without setting a code. This can happen if a sensor's input intermittently drops out (but not for a long enough period of time to set a code) or if a sensor's input is within the right range, but not at the right time. For example, if the throttle position sensor produces near-open-throttle voltage when the throttle is nearly closed, that won't set a code, because the sensor voltage is still within range, but you bet there'll be driveability problems!

If the codes come up empty (I gave you the instructions for checking this yourself, did you do so?), then what's needed is the non-lazy and skillful use of a scanner to watch what's going on when the fault actually occurs. Don't continue to throw random parts at the van; that's a costly, slow, and unreliable way to fix the problem.
It's not.
Stop guessing and diagnose!

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Dan,
I will give your recomended diagnosis a try and check back. Thanks for the advise!

It turns out that my mini-van had the incorrect engine ecu in it. For what ever reason, the previous owner had a 1993 engine-ecu installed .

I bought a used (correct) 1995 engine-ecu a while back and finally replaced the wrong one and now eveything seems to run better!

Yeah... I was gonna say that.... sounded like a "wrong year ecu installed" problem to me Just Kidding!! glad you got it fixed.

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for profiles and pictures of my mopars--> http://www.fquick.com/dietz_diggler

Thanks!