Hello everyone,

I was wondering if anyone has had any noticeable gains in performance by using an external electric motor to power their water-pump, and/or an electric fan for their radiator on a stock 6. I have a 80's+ slant in my 64 valiant and im looking to reduce accessory drag.

I have no power steering or brakes but plan on putting a brake booster on but holding off on the steering pump.

PS. If anyone can point me in the right direction for adapting high-amperage alternators for my 6 I'd be thrilled I noticed some stories with custom brackets to hold Denso alts but little information to use.

Thanks,

Aaron

Wasn't there a big bruhaha a few years back about adapting the new nippondenso one wire alternators to the slant? I thought they were over 100 amps and only took a little grinding to mount on a stock slant alt bracket.

There are gains for drag cars. Electric water pump, electric fan. Stuff like that. For a street car to save gas? Nope. Negligible at best with the configuration we have. Not worth the trouble of finding a shorter fan belt.

Now for driving a 1/4 mile as fast as possible... There you have something.

CJ

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

I was trying to find some info on these fabled denso setups and all i can really gather is each application is pretty much fabricated by DIY'ers. Summit racing has some Alternators that claim to be adaptable, but I'd rather save money by making a bracket what not.

If anyones getting any ideas about getting a bigger alt dont forget to swap your ammeter for a voltmeter or make some considerations for that..

On another note, by the time i spent 200 bucks of electric accessory goodies i might as well get a 75 shot of nos in there :p

FWIW, here is the info on the benefits of an electric water pump from Davies Craig:
"The EWP® is designed for maximum efficiency at its maximum speed of 2250 rpm. Being in nylon, the impeller can have aerofoil cross section which gives lift and the tip clearances can be very small. The mechanical pump has to run at 600 rpm and 6,000 rpm and it cannot be efficient at both those speeds and all speeds in between. Furthermore, as the power the pump takes increases as the cube of the speed - when the mechanical pump is operating at the higher speeds, as it does as a car passes through its gears; it is taking power of the order of 6 to 10 kW. The EWP® uses at maximum speed, which is usually less than 20% of total motoring time, 9 amps x 13 volts gives 120 watts at say 30% efficiency from the alternator to hydraulic power means about 0.4 kW (.54HP) to drive the EWP®. The EWP® never needs to run at very high speeds where the mechanical pump is consuming high power and torque.

In addition, with the old mechanical pump and a thermostat set up, the thermostat is partly closed most of the motoring time and in a cool climate at highway cruising, it is about 90% closed. As a consequence, the flow and pressure being generated by the mechanical belt driven pump and paid for with power and torque, are choked at the thermostat and wasted. This system has worked reasonably well for a long time but it is not smart. With your EWP and digital Controller, power and torque is never wasted as there is no choking (no thermostat) and only as much flow and pressure as is required is produced.

A Dynamometer test on the 5.0L V8 VT Commodore measured a 10kW (13.41HP) improvement at high rpm and overall increase in torque particularly in the lower rev range.

We are starting to see the allowance of EWP® s in racing mostly for the extra power but also to prolong the life of engines with the run on after hot shut down to eliminate heat soak."

Could be snake oil, but it sounds like a reasonable explanation to me.

-Moose

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1966 Clark Cortez, Industrial /6

Sounds like a pretty good bolt on for what I'm looking for! I have a supplier account with jegs and normal list price is 90 bucks for a universal moroso motor. I would probably have to use an electric fan as well since the gear has to go where the fan is.. but that would be less engine drag too!

Thanks for info menke!

Aaron, if you're thinking of buying an electric water pump you may want to do some comparison shopping first. I'm sure their flow rates and amp draw could vary widely. You'll also want to look at how it is controlled. If it is running at full speed all the time, you'd probably lose the potential benefit (if you believe the benefit claims). You'll also want to consider the replacement cost if it fails. The Davies Craig pump and controller costs about $450 from US suppliers. $90 may not get you the same result.

-Moose

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1966 Clark Cortez, Industrial /6

Do not use the Moroso setup on a street car. The motor is nothing more then a heater blower motor. It was designed to drive a centrifical "squrrel cage". It has bronze bushings, which will wear out quickly, with the side loading the belt puts on them. The other problem is the load the fan and water pump put on the motor. The motor will draw much more then the current it is rated for, and will run hot, and burn up the windings. I have this setup on both my cars, and it is fine on the "race" car, but on the street/strip car, I do not run it for more then about a half hour, with out letting it cool down.

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225

carpdar,

I have been running an electric fan on my daily driver for four years now and really like it. It has multiple side benefits as well as better mileage. The better mileage is realized three different ways. The first way, in the morning the motor warms up quicker to operating temp because the fan is not constantly blowing cold air over the motor. The front intake runner to #1 cylinder also warms up quicker since it isn't being cooled by the fan. The warmer runner helps atomize the gas better especially on cold winter mornings. On my way to work the fan never comes on, and that is after driving 64 miles with a 195 degree Superstat! The engine just pulls harder quicker and runs smoother and efficiently. The #1 cylinder plug runs nice and light whitish tan matching the rest of the plugs. I get better performance running a small jet as a result. The second way, is just from lack of drag. Doug Dutra told me once it was worth at least 5 HP. The third way, is after engine shut off, during heat soak my fan will come on and cool the engine down. This keeps the gas from vapor locking, boiling or vaporizing out of the carb especially on 100 plus degree days. Hot restarts are quick, immediately as soon as you can remove your hand from the key. No more heat soak and cranking.

The electric fan mod was less than $100 using brand new parts. Click on the red link below my name for pictures of the mod. Once the picture comes up double click for full screen slide show mode. Send me a PM if want the wiring diagram and parts list. We can't seem to get a sticky on this subject either......

Hope this helps!

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

I think there is a link in an earlier thread somewhere, to some tests done with different type fans on a Jeep or Rambler engine, I'm doing a switch to electric fan myself, so if anyone can remember?

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Aspenized

Found it myself! ...but it is only a dyno test of engine-driven fans, not electric ones. Interesting reading anyway. The link is found in the topic Milage difffernces between fans...

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Aspenized

I'm probably better off sourcing out a 12v electric motor from a more heavy duty application and getting an appropriate pulley for it.. I'm going to start digging around for something ^_^

If you find something (that is affordable) let me know.

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225

Keep in mind that electric power is not free. It has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is the alternator. The alternator becomes harder to turn with increasing electrical load placed on it. It takes a given amount of power to turn a given fan blade at a given speed, whether that power comes directly from the crankshaft or first goes through the alternator. An electric fan setup will cut fan power drag by keeping fan speed at or below a certain speed, compared to a belt-driven, non-clutched fan that turns however fast the engine turns. But the power savings is cancelled to some extent (you have to do the math) by the fact that the alternator is less than 100% efficient — substantially less than 100% in some cases.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

So what would the difference be between a non and a clutched fan?