Hi Everyone,
I am currently rounding up the final components and parts to convert my 9" front brakes to the 10" setup (keeping small bolt pattern etc..). I realize I can convert to the disc setup but I don't want to begin the 'ripple' effect of changing to new wheels and rear end swap at this time in order to accomodate the larger bolt pattern. Besides, the 10" brakes will be a 'major' improvement over the 9" and will work great on my 66 Dart.

Question 1. ....according to my shop manual, it says to release the torsion bars at the lower control arms before disassembly of the current 9" system. Is this correct ? Can the change over be done without backing off the bars ?

Question 2. ....Are the fittings on the brake hoses a standard size ? or is there a difference between 9" and 10" hoses ?

Thanks for your input..!!

I'm not sure about the hose size, although I'd get a new set of hoses anyway as long as you're replacing them. As for #1, I can tell you that while it is possible to remove the ball joints without unloading the torsion bars, it is as dangerous as crawling under a car that's held up in the air with clothesline. When the car is in the air, the torsion bars pull down on the lower ball joints, very hard. Some load on the torsion bars can help pull the upper ball joint off if you try that one first, but this is not the safest way to remove them. (Don't even think about removing the lower ball joint first with loaded torsion bars.)

The good news is that it is easy to unload the torsion bars (you just need a breaker bar and deep socket). My advice is that you shouldn't skip this step.

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"Mad Scientist" Matt Cramer
'66 Dart - turbocharged 225
My blog - Mad Scientist Matt's Lair

Thanks for the verification on the torsion bars...!! I will follow the proceedure..!! As for the upper ball joints, I am replacing the upper control arms with the 73-76 setup. I'm hoping I'll just have to un-bolt the current arms and not mess with un-hooking the existing upper ball joint. Well, since I have to release the torsion bars......I may just go ahead and replace the bars with new ones.....What do you think for size ? .87 or .89 ???
Thanks Matt

by the way....how's your 66 Dart coming along..??

I'm pretty sure that the 10" brakes will use the same hoses as the 9". I put the 4-piston discs on my '68, upgrade from 9", and used the same hoses. You might get away with just putting a jack under the lower control arm w/o releasing the T-bar, but I cannot say this will work for sure (and take no responsibility if there is an, ahem, accident).

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

I just switched my '66 from 9" to 10" last summer. The hoses were definitely different. Autozone had the hoses for the 10" brakes in stock. They were around $13 each. You will need to get the hoses for the specific year that your brakes are too. They changed them a couple times.

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Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

Thanks Lou and Dennis for the input..... I am going to release the torsion bars and replace them while I have it apart. I'm going to check with the local Mopar distributors to see about getting the .87 bars. I have a MP number of P5249149 for the pair. Hopefully, I can still get a set. Thanks again guys....!!
Matt

You don't have to pull out the torsion bars. You just need to use the height adjustment bolt to take all the pressure off of them. There is no need to put a T-bar puller on there and remove the torsion bar entirely.

Although the 0.870" torsion bars <i>are</i> an excellent upgrade. The suspension doesn't bottom out nearly as often, and the ride is not unduly harsh. By the way, a real torsion bar puller is next to impossible to find. However, a wire rope clip from your local hardware store will work just as well, for considerably less money. Here's a picture of one:

<img src="http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/109/gfx/large/8913tc1l.gif">

Get one made of cast iron or a galvenized one. A forged steel or stainless steel clip can scratch the torsion bar.

I haven't made that much progress in the last few weeks on my Dart. Right now, it has the manifolds on there, much of the vacuum hose hooked up, and most of the electronics taken care of, but I need to get the oil drainback working, hook up an electric fuel pump, get the throttle linkage back together, and hook up the turbo to the carb. Which reminds me, I've got an engine question I ought to post...

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"Mad Scientist" Matt Cramer
'66 Dart - turbocharged 225
My blog - Mad Scientist Matt's Lair

Good tip Matt, I have a home-made t-bar puller that works great but be sure to grind away the small ribs on the inside of these cable clamps so they do not nick the T-Bar.
DD

While the ribs on the clamp look a bit imposing, they're usually made from a cast iron so soft that the torsion bar will wear the ribs off instead. You need something made of harder steel, like Vise-Grips, to nick the torsion bar.

_________________
"Mad Scientist" Matt Cramer
'66 Dart - turbocharged 225
My blog - Mad Scientist Matt's Lair

Last week, my son Aaron and I made our first attempt to remove the torsion bars on his '74 Sport. We followed procedure for unloading the tension and removing the retaining clip at the rear. However, we used the ol' rag and Vice Grip method to drive the bar backwards to no avail. It would not budge. The Vice Grip did make a little short scratch down the bar an inch or so through the rag.

Someone tell me what the big deal is about not wanting to scratch or nick the torsion bar. Does such a small imperfection in the metal cause it to explode when placed under a heavy load? Should we worry about a little scratch or would it take much worse to render it unsafe? Should we get a different one now that it is "damaged"? If the ones are good on the '73 Swinger we are salvaging the disk brakes from, should we get them also?

I take it there are various sizes of torsion bars. What size should we use?
Right now, we are installing Aaron's rebuilt 225 /6. Some day he may want to upgrade to a V8. Since the Swinger had a 318 in it, wouldn't its bars be sufficient, or do we need to locate new ones? Where do you get new ones, and roughly, what do they cost?

How's that for a load of questions?

Opinions welcome,
Jerry

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There's a difference between ignorance and stupidity.
Ignorance is not knowing any better.
Stupidity is knowing, yet doing it anyway.

A small scratch on the bar's surface should not be a problem. As with any heat treated metal, any surface defect is a point where stress will build-up (stress riser) and this can cause failure at some point.

As for bar stiffness, you need to get the numbers off the end of the bar to know what it is stiffness wise. There is also paint marks on the bars that help ID them.

So get the right tool and get the bars out so you can figure-out their spring rates.
(BTW the the vice grip removal idea has been tried many times before and almost never works )
DD

I usually have to unbolt the LCA and use a pry bar between the CA and the back of the X-member. That forces it out of the rear hex. Once it's out of that, the t-bar usually comes out of the frt hex without too much trouble.
Yes, any surface defects can cause catastrophic failure of the t-bar. It won't happen right away, but when it is heavily loaded, which means the worst possible moment. I know, I've broken an original 383 bar.

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'66 Cuda 225/4spd
'66 Dart GT convertible 225/auto
'64 Dart GT 340/4spd

Here's what I use---

Homemade torsion bar puller (disassembled):



Homemade torsion bar puller (mounted snugly on breaker bar masquerading as a T-bar...rubber handle would be control arm end of T-bar...hammer head is addressing face of puller which is struck to break T-bar loose). Don't forget to take all weight off front suspension, remove T-bar C-clips and unload T-bar anchor bolts in lower control arms before swinging the hammer!




---Red

Good job on the T. Bar tool Red, I like the fact that your's has a large striking surface.
The tool I "ginned-up" has a much smaller face to hit so it is harder to work with.
DD

The way I used to remove the t-bars on a 68 Valiant that I had was back off the adjusting bolt all the way, remove the nut from the shaft on the lower control arm, remove the clip on the back of the t-bar and put a bar inbetween the K-member and the lower control arm and push. One it is loose from the hex hole in the crossmember it was easy to pull it out of the lower control arm.

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Former bent 6 owner
Mark