Can I get the block o-ringed with the pistons in it? As in just the head off? Also, what size should I get the groove and what size wire/what kind of wire should I use?

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1965 Plymouth Belvedere II Turbo Project - SOLD
2002 Subaru OBS
1995 Lexus LS400 Race Car

We are doing this right now.


Leave the pistons in.

I don't know what you are planning on doing about actually cutting the grooves for the wire, but what we did was to "rent" a cutter from Iskenderian in California.

How this is done:

You "buy" the cutter ($300.00) and once you have used it, return it for your purchase price back minus $60.00 "rent."

Once you get your money back, the whole deal has cost $60.00 plus shipping, and for that they give you the use of cutter and the copper wire if you want to use copper. I think most folks do.

We have cut one cylinder and found that the cut we made was apparently sloppy on the width, because the wire was not staying in the groove. We measured the wire and it was .038"-diameter.

The cuttter-blade must be about .037"...

I think that's a small interference fit in the groove made by the cutter.


So, in order to deal with this wire problem, I ordered some .041"-diameter stainless steel wire and it may be enough bigger to stick, snugly in the groove.

The groove is .030"-deep, leaving .008" of the copper wire sticking out the top (or, .011" if you use the stainless steel wire.)

You adjust the depth of the groove by stacking small pieces of feeler gauge blades under the cutter's support studs... there are 4 (they limit how far the cutter holder will go down into the cylinder) to whatever depth you want to cut. We made three cuts' .010", then .020" and finally, .030". That was three cuts, .010" at a time for a total of .030."

That sounds confusing: You put the feeler gauge pieces on top of the block deck and set the cutter's support lugs (4) on top of them. That raises the cutter HOLDER up off the block the distance of the thickness of the feeler gauge pieces. THEN, you loosen the cutter BLADE (on the cutter holder) and adjust it so that it just touches the top of the block with the feeler gauge pieces raising the holder). Lock the blade down to the cutter holder. Now, the cutting depth is adjusted for that particular cut.
THEN remove the feeler gauge pieces and start rotating the cutter. It will only cut as deep as the feeler gauge pieces were thick.

We did it with the piston at bottom dead center.

Filings are prevented from getting down between the piston and the cylinder wall by a close-fitting dummy piston-plug I made out of some 3.5" aluminum round bar stock, one-inch thick, longitudinally.that is only .002" smaller than the bore. Vaseline is smeared on the sides of the piston/plug, up against the cylinder walls to prevent any filings from getting between the plug and the cylinder wall...

I put a bolt/handle in the middle of it so that when the cutting is finished, I can pull it up our of the bore (and the filings with it.)

This is a time-consuming, tedious job. Ramp up your patience...

Hope this helps!!!!

Bill

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1964 Valiant 4-door sedan, 225 turbo/904

Tomorrow, (it's still Sunday night to me, although technically, it's past midnite, so it's actually Monday, already,) I will venture the 35 miles down to the shop and do some more work on the current frustration in my life, the turbo slant six that occupies most of my thoughts during my waking hours.

I am replacing the intended .038" copper O-Rings with some .041" stainless steel wire I bought from a fishing tackle store, online. I couldn't get the copper wire to stick in the groove; it kept coming out. Cut and try X 6.

Wish me luck...

Bill in Conway, Arkansas

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1964 Valiant 4-door sedan, 225 turbo/904

Not sure who ever started the copper O-ring wire stuff, but it completely negates the purpose of O-ringing the block to begin with. Replacing yours with a stainless wire is the only way to correctly do it. Luck would have only been needed if you were to use the copper wire, an "at'a boy" is all you need now.

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There's no such thing as too much cam....only not enough engine!

CNC Dude; that's good to hear! I'm on my way to do just that, as we speak!

Thanks for the advice!! !

Bill

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1964 Valiant 4-door sedan, 225 turbo/904

Well, that .041" stainless wire was just a skosh too wide... I ended up hammering a flat spot on top of it in an attempt to get it to go down into that groove, but Noooooooooooooooo.... it just refused all attempts.

So, "Fastenal" sells some stainless wire that is .039".... I found out through Google, so tomorrow (Thursday) I will make an attempt to get a 5-pound coil of that and try again. The closest store that has any in 91 miles away, do I'll have it shipped here on one of their delivery trucks.

Wish me luck.... The groove I am cutting is .030"-deep, so that .039"-wire will stick out .009" above the block. Is that about right? I will be using a Fel Pro composition gasket that has a "fire ring" around each cylinder. That ring is about 1/8"-wide. The O-Ring is positioned to hit in the middle of that fire ring.

This setup works well for Aaron... and I'm hoping it will work well for us. He had water leaks twice, in two separate attempts to use a copper gasket, so he tried this Fel Pro, and it works well.... 18 pounds of boost and it is still sealed up 100%.

I'll let you know if that .039" wire is more co-operative.

Thanks for your interest!

Bill, in Conway, Arkansas

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1964 Valiant 4-door sedan, 225 turbo/904

An O-ringed block or head only works with a copper head gasket.

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There's no such thing as too much cam....only not enough engine!

Well, then I may have to change my plans.

Aaron told me that when he had water-leakage problems twice with the copper gasket, he decided to try a Fel Pro composite gasket with a fire-ring.

He said it worked. No more leaking water. He ran the engine under load with 18 pounds of boost and has removed the head three times since then with no evidence of a compression leak.

I liked the idea of no water leaks, so I thought it might be worth a try, but now you're saying it won't work, so I may have to call Richard Clark and get a copper gasket built.

I'd like to run 20-25 pounds of boost, eventually, so I need something that will stand the guff...


Have you seen the Fel Pro fire ring gasket fail when O-Ringed? What happens to it?

Any information will be appreciated.

Thanks for your interest!


Bill in Conway, Arkansas

PS The .039"-wire is on its way; should be here Saturday.

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1964 Valiant 4-door sedan, 225 turbo/904

No leaks with copper here...Use Hylomar around the water and oil.

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11.02 @ 120.56
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAxRmoDgsdY
Chassis dyno
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd6hFGzLJMc

Thanks, Tom! We may end up with that setup

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1964 Valiant 4-door sedan, 225 turbo/904

I'm not throwing an o-ring on my engine for now, I'm just going to run the aussie permaseal gasket and see how it works. I'll be around 12 p.s.i., and tons of time into the tune. So I doubt I'll have any problems. But if I ever decide on running more boost than that, I'll o-ring with a felpro probably.

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1965 Plymouth Belvedere II Turbo Project - SOLD
2002 Subaru OBS
1995 Lexus LS400 Race Car

I wasn't impressed with the quality of the hussey head gasket and probably should of sent it back mine didn't line up very well and needed some work in and around the dowl pins, and had some over hang in the bore's, and water jacket holes. And I also tired to us hylomar with no luck. Now I have a hundred dollar wall art hanging in the garage.

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http://youtu.be/2Y4i4UOLiSA

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/sho ... p?t=126611

If I try a copper gasket, it will be from Richard Clark. Thanks for the info about the problems you had with the Hussey unit, Aaron. It was helpful.

Bill

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1964 Valiant 4-door sedan, 225 turbo/904

I would be REALLY interested in hearing comments from WILL about his experiences with head gaskets.

Nothing beats hand-on experience, and having just recently changed over to a boosted application, I am sure his experiences with that engine would be very helpful for a novice like me, to hear about.

If you have time, it would be very much appreciated if you could write a bit about your experiences, material choices, recommendations, etc. and plans for the future as regards head gaskets, so we could benefit from your knowledge.

Thanks in advance...

Bill

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1964 Valiant 4-door sedan, 225 turbo/904

I currently am working on a big bore copper head gasket, so i'll have a top quality one available before long.

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There's no such thing as too much cam....only not enough engine!