I am piecing together my turbo kit for the '66. I would like some expert opinions on this.I try and get everything right the first time,so I am wondering how my planned set up looks.

Car is a '66 Dart 4 door, 225, 904 with 3.23's out back.Currently has a super six, with a BBD on a Ebeam manifold.

My plan is to use a stock GN turbo(intercooled), with the stock exhaust manifold joined by a J pipe. Stock motor,stock cam, stock head.

I plan on installing the turbo on the stock motor, and I will be rebuilding/porting a spare head to swap on after a base tune is set. I will most likely stick with the stock cam/j pipe/and GN turbo.


And finally my question: Stick with the 2bbl or upgrade to a 4? I have been in a mindset that I need a Clifford 4 bbl,but after researching some brand x turbo builds, a 2300 Holley 350 cfm seems like it might work.

Overall goal with the car is a daily driver with a "budget" turbo build that can keep up with the modern muscle on the road(5.0 mustangs,challys and camaros)


Any thoughts?

I m no expert. but since no one else responded, I will tell you what I THINK I know.

#1.... a 2bbl will be easier to "tune" (set the mixture) since you're only dealing with two-barrels rather than four.

#2: Do yourself a HUGE favor and buy a wideband, auto-ranging, data-logging, oxygen sensor to tune this thing... it is virtually impossible to do any other way. It will definitely be the best money you ever spent.

#3: Limit your total spark advance (under boost) to 18 degrees, one way or another... on the crank.

#4: Limit your boost to ten pounds... and you can run (good) pump gas.

Be aware that lead in gas can and wil ruin the O-2 sensor in your mixture monitoring O-2 sensor... in short order. Nobody told me that, so I had to buy a second one for $95.00...

#5: Do yourself another favor and buy and install a water/alcohol injector from an outfit like Snowperformance Boost cooler, a Colorado firm. A Stage ONE unit will work great in your application and will eliminate the threat of detonation if everything else (mixture, timing, boost, etc.) is set properly.

This setup should give you roughly the same performance as a 340 V8 in the same car.

Your car will probably get better mileage than it did "stock" and will idle smoothly and have excellent driveability.

Either the 350 OR the 500 Holley carb should work equally well, once modified for blow-thru operation, I am told.

No muffler should be required...

But, ten pounds of boost and 18-degrees of advance under boost is critical for a pump gas engine. That's PREMIUM pump gas.

Bill, in Conway, Arkansas

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1964 Valiant 4-door sedan, 225 turbo/904

Also, a stock electronic ignition system should work fine for this application. To set the total mechanical advance just remove and plug the vacuum advance hose from the distributor, and plug the end of the hose.

Then, make a mark on your damper at 18 degrees before top-dead-center, and run the rpm up (watching the advance on the damper as the revs come up past it) 'til it hits the limit and won't advance any more. Turn the distributor counter-clockwise (retard it,) while revving it revving it 'til there's not going to be any more advance, and set the distributor at that 18-degree location, locking it down with the hold-down bolt.

Hook the hose back up, and you're oood to go. The vacuum advance won't work unless there is vacuum... and, none is present under boost. The diaphragm will only work at cruise, and boost is nonexistent at that throttle setting. When the throttle opens, the vacuum disappears. And, the timing reverts to 18 degrees... safe.

At least, that's the plan... lol!

Bill, in Conway, Arkansas

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1964 Valiant 4-door sedan, 225 turbo/904

Bill-

Thank you for your reply,and all the great info! I already have done the HEI swap, so I just need to modify my distributor to limit my timing.

Jared

Jared,

COOL!!! Just keep us updated, please!

Bill

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1964 Valiant 4-door sedan, 225 turbo/904

I second the wideband made tuning soooooooo much easier and I run a meth injection kit as a safety net for my setup.

Kev

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Jared, I'm in Round Rock and doing the same build as you for the most part. 170 motor, 904, Ford 8.8 rear (unsure of gearing at this point). If you ever wanna get together and swap ideas feel free to let me know.

Wayno

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If it ain't broke, break it and fix it RIGHT!

Im doing pretty much the same turbo setup on my '77 D-100 truck, but I might wanna run more boost than 10psi...I'd really love to have a 12-second truck if I take it to the strip, but a reliable setup if I wanna jump in the truck and cruise.

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-Brodie

1977 Dodge D100 stepside, slant six/3 on the tree
2002 Chrysler 300M Special (daily driver)

As I see it, boost/horsepower will likely not be the only problem with your setup. Pickup trucks are, as you already know, notoriously light in the back. This creates a traction problem when you try to put several hundred horsepower through those tires; they just want to spin...

I have, on occasion, seen pickup trucks that hook and leave the line amazingly well, so I know it can be done; just be aware that it's going to take some, probably, 10-inch rubber to get that truck into the twelves. I don't think you'll have a problem making the power... just getting it to the ground.

Probably, fifteen pounds of boost will get you where you need to be, power-wise. That's just a guess, but I don't think it will require more than that.

Good luck, and let us know, please, how it works out.

Bill, in central Arkansas

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1964 Valiant 4-door sedan, 225 turbo/904

Sorry, I dont mean to hijack the thread...but since the most boost people recommend for a completely stock slant is 10psi, what else would I have to do to run 15psi? Forged internals? New cam? Head work?

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-Brodie

1977 Dodge D100 stepside, slant six/3 on the tree
2002 Chrysler 300M Special (daily driver)

Brodie,

That is a hard qiestion to answer definitively.... it's a borderline case on the internals. The thing is, detonation is what tears up parts; if you could absolutely avoid detonation (particularly, under boost.) you'd probably (I said "probably") be okay at 15 pounds of boost if you ran stock compression and were careful with your mixture and timing.

Ideally, you should, if you want to go 12's and run 15 pounds of boost, opt for the K-1 rods and Wiseco pistons, but it's roughly another $1,000.00 to go that extra mile.

I would recommend O-ringing the block, too, to prevent (hopefully) head gasket failures. It's a lot of work, but will give you some peace of mind, and maybe prevent headaches, down the road.

Here is a link you might enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPe_vHwZsF4

That is Tom Wolfe's Dart, with a 100,000+ mile slant six with a stock cam, head, pistons, valves, and 3,300+ pounds, with a junkyard Buick GN turbo, 4bbl manifold carb, and nothing else... 18 pounds of boost on stock pistons,,, and your 12-second timeslip.

Now, he has forged pistons, rods, a ported head with bigger valves and goes 11-seconds flat into a 15-mph headwind... about 500 hp.

It's do-able (12 seconds) with stock pistons, but you'll sleep better at night with the forged stuff, if you can manage it...

It's still cheaper than trying to go that fast, naturally-aspirated, I think.

Have fun; that's the main thing!

Bill, in Conway, Arkansas

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1964 Valiant 4-door sedan, 225 turbo/904

I forgot to add that a chemical intercooler (water/alcohol-injection) would be an important addition to this project. It is available from Snowperformance and other sources. Good insurance against detonation!

Bill

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1964 Valiant 4-door sedan, 225 turbo/904

Ok, well the truck will be raced maybe once or twice a year at a track, if any at all. Its basically going to be built to be a custom cruiser to take to shows and on cruises and on the weekends, but would love it if once in a great while I could wrap up some V8's at the drag track. If 15psi is safe to run once in a great while on stock engine, then great! But like someone said...it's a matter of getting traction. So I should be good to run 10 psi normally and bump it up to 15 on special occasions?

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-Brodie

1977 Dodge D100 stepside, slant six/3 on the tree
2002 Chrysler 300M Special (daily driver)

And I was planning on intercooling it with somethi ng along the lines of this...

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-Brodie

1977 Dodge D100 stepside, slant six/3 on the tree
2002 Chrysler 300M Special (daily driver)

Tht Intercooler shown, is a neat package. There is, however, this to consider: Intercoolers such as this introduce additional flow restrictions (however small) into the air stream and, if you are in a low-boost situation (such as 10-pounds per square-inch,) you might find that the temperature rise from compressing the air that small amount might not create a temperature rise that makes an intercooler necessary. I don't know how much that kit costs, but I would seriously consider investigating the water/alcohol spray chemical intercooling as an alternative, in view of the fact that a spray would not denigrate the air flow like an intercooler like you have shown here, will. All this assumes that you want to err on the side of caution and utilize some sort of intercooling in view of the possibility of a 15-pound-boosted future.

Please understand, I am not at all an expert on complex matters like this and am not really in a position to be giving advice, so take it with a pound, rather than a grain of salt. I apologize for not being more knowledgeable about flow dynamics as regards temperature and pressure, but I am just not qualified.

I m a relative newbie who feels really lucky to have happened upon the incredibly happy marriage of forced induction as it relates to slant sixes, at all.

Ten pounds of boost wakes one of these motors up to an amazing degree. You may not NEED fifteen pounds...

Bill, in Conway, Arkansas

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1964 Valiant 4-door sedan, 225 turbo/904