I am familiar with Lean Burn, points ignition systems, and Mopar 4 and 5 pin OEM electronic ignition setups.
I know there are a lot of fans of converting any of the above to a HEI module. I've dealt with those on their "intended" vehicles, but never converted another brand of car to run on one. I can see it won't be difficult/tough to do at all. NOT knocking that idea. Just want thoughts on "other" alternatives.

In the past I have used (I still have one in the attic, think I got that one from Wesola probably 10 years ago) I had a couple of these setups over the years. and those being the Jacobs "Energy Team"/ Mileage master version. I had one on my 87 B250 van in conjunction with its Lean Burn, then transferred it to one of my Diplomats as a work around for Lean Burn. I "just" ran the Jacobs by itself with a vac advance stock Mopar electronic distributor.
I mistakenly left it behind when I sold the Diplomat. I wish I'd have kept that. I didn't really notice much difference on the van until I removed it upon selling the van, I noticed how it ran "without" the Jacobs after removal, more than I noticed how different it ran when I added it..... (does that make sense?)

Anyone else here ever use this setup? Thoughts? (either good or bad)


I have also used the MSD, back in the day I had MSD-5C (the stock Mopar 5 pin electronic ignition module plug directly plugged into these) and as compared to a stock Mopar ECU, when peaked out for timing and carb, and seemingly running well, the MSD seemed to be "just enough" smoother to be able to notice. That particular MSD is NLA, but essentially teh same as the MSD-6 except for the ability to plug in directly to OE wiring. Looking at a "parade" pattern on an ignition scope this one looked weird. but the multiple sparks were definitely "seeable" on the scope.

same questions as above. in both cases "stock" engine, trans and gearing.
thoughts on Mallory,other aftermarket ignition setups welcomed.

There are certainly many other ways to make the necessary sparks.
I think with the Slant that the HEI conversion is favored because it's easy, inexpensive, effective, and very thoroughly understood by the slant community.

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One of the Jacobs units - I didn't get full information on just what it was - was little more than a factory ignition control integrated circuit in an extruded case. I suspect it was the Mileage Master since Jacobs' CDI ignitions would not fit that description. If that's the case, a good quality HEI would be a near-direct equivalent.

The MSD 5 series was a real oddity - it appeared to be an inductive ignition instead of CDI, but with multiple spark capability. I don't think anyone else has tried that. (Edit: More specifically, I don't think any other ignition manufacturer has tried this.)

The only surviving "box" type inductive ignitions like the Mileage Master or MSD 5 that I'm aware of are the Crane XR3000, which is now made by FAST, and ICE Ignition in Australia. Everything else has either gone CDI or disappeared - I suspect the popularity of HEI conversions killed this style of ignition.

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Matt Cramer
1966 Dodge Dart turbo / EFI project

Thanks, and interesting info there.
Yeah my Jacobs setup is the mileage master, have their ignition coil along with it.

So msd isn't making the likes of a 6A anymore?

The 6A is still around. It's the oddball 5A that's disappeared. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

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Matt Cramer
1966 Dodge Dart turbo / EFI project

"Doctor" Jacobs was a con artist -- maybe still is; no idea if he's still at it -- and his products reflected that. All hype, no substance; all hat, no cowboy; all icing sugar, no doughnut; tastes filling, less great.

Some of MSD's boxes used to be less unreliable than they are now.

ProCycle's right: the HEI swap is overwhelmingly popular because it's very effective, very cost-effective, very easy, and very versatile depending on component selection.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Con artist? Didn't know that but these days, I guess it's not surprising. I did just buy his "ignition secrets" book off of fee bay. I don't have it yet, fortunately (I guess, then) it didn't cost me much.

You'll be led astray if you follow the advice in it. There's much better quality knowledge right here on this board and in numerous other places. That book is a useless mix of 50% bulk wrap and 50% self-promotional sales hype.
Nothing "these days" about it; he was a con artist 36 years ago when that book was first published, and he was still a con artist 24 years ago when it got a facelift (new title/new cover picture/updated line of Jacobs-branded products to push).

well, I have been working on cars in general for my living/ mostly been an alignment/suspension/brake/ "undercar" tech, but for the last 7 years I have been a fleet mechanic for the lousy state I live in..... Ford 5.4's are no picnic, hate them with a passion/ Chevy Impalas aren't all they are cracked up to be either.... personally, I have yet to own anything, that ISN'T a RWD/4wd Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep.... I still dislike FWD "anything"

While I don't know everything and never will, hopefully I know enough to pick apart the fluff in that book....I'm looking at a few more on Epay…. ones about EFI conversions, and turbo systems-themed ones as well...…. I did pick up Doug Dutra's book and haven't gotten that far into that one yet.

I have been away from this forum for a while (Dan, I remember when you were a mod here, and what happened when you stopped being one) and it's been a while since I have dug into a /6 OR an 80s Dodge truck in general, Ive definitely forgotten a few things that I used to know.... sorry if some of what I have been asking seens "dumb"/ but I'm trying to remember some of what I used to know, and see what's developed since then. too...... I'm "only" 52 but sometimes my body feels more like 85... my mind, too...

ok now/ any more comments on the good from the bad about the various ignition systems that are available that members here have tried? (mostly looking for info on aftermarket or retrofitted, as compared to OE Mopar stuff)

I've used the 2 that I mentioned above in earlier posts in my examples of what is out there to be had, over the years. (and I know those weren't by far the "only" alternative ignition systems to be had at the time.... just those which "I" have had my hands on. Let's hear what "you guys" have played with.

and I didn't really have any problems to speak of with either, though over the years having had a couple of each, I did have an MSD-5C die on me once.... but I had another here, to put in its place-- though I don't any longer. both were already "used," when I got them though.

Last I'd heard of him, Chris Jacobs sold his business to Prestolite's performance division. They seem to have done a complete redesign instead of keeping the existing Jacobs products in production. The Jacobs brand seems to have been dropped altogether before the Prestolite performance brands were sold to Holley. After that, Holley acquired MSD, and they initially dropped all the Prestolite ignition boxes in favor of MSD for a few years before bringing back Prestolite's Accel and Mallory ignition boxes. Personally, I think that's a bit of an odd choice for them to have so many competing brands, kind of like the General Motors lineup circa 1999, but it's pretty telling that the Jacobs brand is the only ignition module line they hold the rights to that they didn't revive.

Todd Ryden's book on ignition parts is a bit less hype-ish, if you . He also tended to give a lot of ink to the company he works for (MSD) but the book is based on solid facts. I haven't read the Jacobs book to compare.

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Matt Cramer
1966 Dodge Dart turbo / EFI project

ok.. my particular Jacobs system wound up a bust.... hooked it all up "standalone" as a quick and dirty bypass of a horribly butchered OEM wiring harness and a Lean Burn computer all in 1 swoop. The 2 lights on the face would not light like they should and no spark.... so it hit "file 13"....
I tore apart an OEM Dodge 70s truck harness with a 4 pin ballast and 5 pin ECU, (it's what I had here, again quick and dirty) again standalone, "just to see if this engine runs or not" and it fired up..... so now I can proceed with the rest of my plans for this truck.... after I go thru this hacked underhood wiring...
I want to pare down and eliminate any wiring I will not need, once the Lean Burn follows the Jacobs into File 13, anyways. .... to get down to basic K I S S mentality...…


OK, now as a "branch off" to my original thoughts for this thread..... lets add various factory and factory-replacement aftermarket parts.... Any to flat out avoid? I have just spent some time searching EPay for various old school brand, old stock, US made replacement-for-factory 4 pin ECU's....
I looked thru Sorensen, Niehoff, E-core, Blue Streak, Filko and Echlin, found many choices with "dog eared" and dusty boxes.... plenty to go around.
I did do some shopping, picked up some Niehoff stuff, (a voltage regulator as mine is melted out from behind, on the truck-- and a 4 pin box) also got a Sorensen and the E-core 4-pin--- 1 for the truck, 1 for the de-lean-burn on my Fury and 1 for spare.... I spent little to nothing.... have some "HEI Conversion" goodies in my watch list, too...….. I think I saw some comment along these lines, for the various available components for the HEI conversion components in the thread about that... who's "good", who to "avoid" for those components.....

the E-core, and one other (Niehoff I think it was, my head is still spinning) showed a "HEAVY DUTY" version. Are they really, or is it that "lying" thing again? what would be heavy duty about these? Tweaked dwell, more room for error/ heavier rated components within? better potting/less likely to melt down? or "same as others from back in that day"? I must say I feel a whole lot better (hopefully not a "false sense") sourcing something from back then as long as it is still possible/available, as anything available today is guaranteed to be China made..... which I have not had good luck with...… I bypassed anything known to be "Wells" brand/ as even back then, they seemed a crap shoot.....

The main reason most of the ignition boxes of yore have disappeared from the market is that OE ignition systems not only improved dramatically, but distributors also went away. Other than better ignition coils, which usually are not needed, there's precious little one can do to a contemporary ignition system. If you're never going to see the high side of 5,000 RPM a good HEI module and coil are about all you need. If you want a direct 4-pin replacement ignition module the old Standard LX-101 is good.

I have a much more forgiving take on Chris Jacobs PhD EE. I know him and consider him a friend. He came into ignition systems when there was still much improvement to be had on many OE systems. Just changing the coil switching from points to transistor/MOSFET was a big improvement and better coils were sometimes of benefit. I agree that they were over-hyped, but I don't know too many con artists who offered a money back guarantee. There were some innovative products like the plug wires with ceramic spark plug boots for high heat situations like trucks and motorhomes. Jacobs also liked nitrous and had an RPM-proportional controller. He sold the company probably 20 years ago.

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Joshua