Single Master, it probably is an adjustment problem.(or non-adjustment) With just the drums on, can you adjust it until the shoe scrape?(do you have that must adjustment room?)

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1964 Dart GT

I did that initially: installed them so the drum scraped as it went around, and the brakes were adjusted out. Now that they don't scrape as I go around, am I supposed to adjust them outward again? That seems redundant: to achieve the same scraping effect that will only wear the shoes down further.

No, I was just trying to figure out if you had enough adjustment to make them drag. and the pics look like you have everything on right. Where did you buy you brake shoes?(I had problems with shoes from AutoZone and NAPA)...grasping at straws at this point.

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1964 Dart GT

Yeah, I ordered the shoes from RockAuto, they're Centric shoes. I ordered '71 finned Centric 9" drums to upgrade. Should work....

I converted the single pot MC over to dual pot this weekend and I went through the MC bench-bleeding process, and bled all the brake lines, once I eliminated all leaks. The brake pedal is better than it was. It feels hard but definitely NOT very 'high', which does concern me.

At first I thought this had to do with air in my brake lines and the MC, but after we bled them out yesterday, that's not it. The only thing I can think of at this point is that I either didn't install the brake hardware correctly, or I didn't adjust them enough. Let me itemize all the things I'm trying to correct here:

1. Brake pedal is too low: it should feel high and hard and I can tell the brake shoes must be doing some 'shifting' which seems to be causing pedal drop. In Neutral, pedal is decent. When I shift into Drive or Reverse, the pedal sinks to a lower position and stays low. It doesn't sink farther but it stays too low for my comfort.

Do I need to adjust the starwheel adjustors out more again to get the scrape-scrape effect? It's not scraping at all right now, and I thought that's because I've already worn the shoes down, bedding them in. I'm wondering if the brake pedal is not high enough in Drive or Reverse because the shoes aren't adjusted far enough outward and the cylinders are having to push them too far to make contact against the drum?

2. Self Adjustor levers keep springing out of position. The new '67+ self-adjustors keep causing me a headache. I don't know what the problem is. The adjustor cables keep falling off their guides. The adjustor levers KEEP falling underneath the starwheel adjustors, rubbing into the drum surface, which means the adjustors aren't working at all. WHY DOES THIS KEEP HAPPENING??? I am at my wit's end! I'm either not doing something right, or the parts are flawed. I think the former is more likely since these are Centric shoes and drums. I will pull the drums off, fix the cables (give them a twist or three to shorten them up), reinstall everything and drive the car a bit, then I'll hear a noise again, jack the car up, spin the wheel, hear a bunch of rubbing noises, pull the drums off again and the cables will have sprung off their guides. How do I fix this once and for all? If I take care of problem one (brake adjustment) will this potentially fix this problem?

3. Right front brake is squealing loudly when braking. Wasn't squealing at all before. Now, once I've driven a bit and warmed up the brakes, the right front squeals noticeably. What could be causing this? How can I fix?

4. Pulls to the right. Realized the other day that it's not stopping straight: the car is pulling to the right when braking. What causes this and how can I fix it?

Thanks for the help. I'm so done with this brake job at this point. I just want everything to work, as it should.

Shoes aren’t adjusted up enough low pedal will result. Step on the brake to center the shoes, than take a brake spoon or screwdriver and snug the shoes up until you can’t turn the drum by hand, and then back the adjuster star wheel several notches until rotating the drum has significant dragging and not free spinning. Make the same adjustment to the other three wheels is the same. By snugging up the shoes they become centered in the drum, and backing them off the same amount for each wheel prevents pulling as each shoe has the same distance to travel to make contact.

Something is goofy with this, be sure the adjusters and springs are in correct position. Consult the Factory Service Manual, and keep straight which shoe faces forward at each wheel. Shoes are in pairs one being longer than the other, and must be installed correctly.
Something got loose in there and is gouging up the drum.


Pulling can be caused by several conditions the most common being ; wet shoes with water or brake fluid or wheel bearing grease, inconsistent shoe adjustment relating to its axil mate on the other side of car, collapsed flexible line, and broken or disconnected hardware. You need to pull the drum for a look see.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Do you have your old brake parts?(Springs, adjusters, star wheels...)? Did you replace the wheels cylinders when you rebuilt your brakes? all this might be covered in earlier post, I'm just not digging that far back. You do have a FSM for your year model?
You should go back to square one and eliminate all issues and work from there.(Your brakes did work before you rebuilt everything? Right?)
Sounds like you have some incompatible parts in your mix.

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1964 Dart GT

Pulled both front wheels off. Didn't see anything gouging my drums, but did find quite a bit of shoe-wear dust inside each drum. Took compressed air and blew off the whole assembly as well as blew out the inside of each drum.

Adjusted the starwheels out until there was significant scraping, but not enough to prohibit the wheel from turning.

Reset the brake self-adjustors on their guides, etc.

Immediately after doing this, two things happened:

1. The pedal was a lot higher and harder - good.
2. The brakes didn't squeak or squeal at all - even better.

However, that was two weeks ago. SINCE THEN, other issues have come up that I need to address:

A) The brakes eventually started squealing again. Not near as bad as before, but it's noticeable. Is this because of the brake dust accumulating inside the drum?? When I notice them squeaking/squealing the most is after I've been driving and stopping and the drums are heated. Then, on slow-down the brakes like to make a low squeal.

Drove the car to a Dodger game here in LA, and there was TONS of stop and go traffic up and down long hills. The brakes were squealing all over the place and smelling a little stinky. I just assumed this is a normal occurrence for hot brakes, but is it?? I never had this problem with my '64 Dart that had fully broken-in brakes...

My original drums had a large anti-squeak spring around them. Do I need to remove that off the old drums and install on my new drums?

B) When I'm driving downhill on a curve (so I've turned the wheel away from straight) and I step on the brakes, I get a powerful vibrating effect on the brakes. The pedal pulses as if the drums are somewhat out of round, unbalanced, or they're rubbing on something. How do I cure this?

The caveat to these issues is that the front end of the vehicle does need rebuilding. But that's a bigger project.

Lots of dust, hot stink, sounds like radius of shoe and drum are different. Are your drums out of spec, or in other words been turned too much causing just a small contact point of shoe to drum?

In the old days when a drum was turned, shoe was placed in a grinding machine to duplicate the larger radius of the drum so full contact of shoe would be made. An indicator of this is the thickness of shoe wearing material is thinner at its midpoint in comparison to the ends of that material.

Also chattering could be a sign of small contact patch with drum which would allow the shoe to rock back and forth toe to heal so to speak against the drum.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

The drums were brand new, and each side was turned, perhaps a couple thousandths (not sure how much exactly) to allow the drums to slip over the new shoes. I don't know how much the shop turned each drum, but they didn't do anything to the shoes, since I understand they don't turn shoes any longer. Beyond that, all I did was install them.
So when I drive downhill, turning on a gentle curve, and I brake and I feel and hear an intense pulsing on the pedal, you're calling this chatter?

If this is what's happening (only a small area of the shoe is making contact with the drum), how do I rectify this?

You need to pull a drum and shoes and see if both make full contact tip to tip. If they don't one of the parts need to be reradiused to be able to mate. One always has to place new shoes into drum to see if they are a fit before being mounted; I would do this at the parts store.

Why would you turn new drums? For umpteen years drums have been prefinished ready to install. Just clean them, back off adjustment of new shoes slide them on over the shoes, and adjust. If this can't be done, than one of the two parts is the wrong item; drum or shoe.

Also make sure primary (short) facing to front of vehicle and secondary (long) shoes facing to rear of vehicle are positioned correctly with their respective springs. This where a factory service manual comes in handy for these little details. Honestly I can't ever remember which shoe goes where because I don't do brakes very often, and my head is full of other less important crap to keep track of important stuff like this.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

I did not want to turn these new drums, but the driver's side drum was too tight and wouldn't turn at all with the adjuster backed all the way off. The passenger's side slipped over ok and turned better but since the driver's side needed help, I took them both to be turned.
They are correctly positioned, short in front, long in back.

There were upgrades to this system throughout the process. Finned 9" front Centric drums for '70-'71 were used as well as Centric shoes. The 1967 and up 'improved' self adjusters and springs were used instead of the 1963 snap-down type adjusters.

Would there potentially be differences between "1963" Centric shoes for the typical 9" front drums, vs. '70-'71 front shoes for finned 9" front drums?

It sounds to me like you self adjusters are at least part of the issue. If the cable keeps falling off something is wrong. if the adjuster won't screw together far enough to get the drum on something is wrong.

I would get the right adjusters and brake shoes for the year of the car.

2 cents

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!

12.70 @ 104.6