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MDchanic
 Post subject: Re: Starter
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2025 1:42 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:12 am
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Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Car Model: 1964 Dart 270 4-Door
It's like new!

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SlantSixDan
 Post subject: Re: Starter
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2025 2:09 pm 
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There is not enough information in these photos to say anything substantial about the condition of this starter. Tooth damage is not a common failure mode.

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Dutch Dart GT 64
 Post subject: Re: Starter
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 4:34 am 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:20 am
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Location: Netherlands
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Turned out the coil inside was bad. Found another one


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SlantSixDan
 Post subject: Re: Starter
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 5:00 pm 
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You're in for a surprise when you install that starter and turn the key. That is a remanufacturer's cobble-up of a '74-and-later large-frame starter. The field coils, the armature, and the motor housing are all about 1.5cm longer than the small-frame starter. This kind of starter runs much faster than your car's original starter, has 2:1 gearing instead of 3.5:1, and doesn't sound anything alike.

The large-frame starter did not replace the small-frame one; both were manufactured and factory-installed from '74 to the end of that kind of starter in 1987. The large-frame starter was first installed on the biggest V8s Chrysler made in '74. Starting in '75, the large and small starters were used on various engines, from the 225 Slant-6 on up through the 440, seemingly at random. Some years, a certain kind of engine would get the small-frame starter. Other years, that same engine would get the large-frame starter. No consistency to it; my best guess it was a symptom of the administrative mess that was Chrysler in the '70s.

"Cobble-up" because what we see here is the small-frame motor housing with a ~1.5cm spacer ring between the end of the housing and the rear bearing plate, to throw together a large-frame starter out of a mix of small- and big-frame starter parts.

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Dutch Dart GT 64
 Post subject: Re: Starter
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2025 2:03 am 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:20 am
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you've got to be kidding me...
it sounds more or less the French way of putting a car together. When trying to find parts for my Renault it is quite often impossible to get the right part on the VIN number, e.g. brakes, it could be 3 different brands that where put on and you just have to see what you've got... not registered on VIN

the problem with the starter is the coil inside is broken and that seems impossible to be fixed. Nothing else in the NLs is to be found so I have to get one from the US then shipped to me.

any advice;
https://autotruck42.com/gb/starter-alte ... 43218.html

https://www.ebay.com/itm/286475095913?n ... AOEALw_wcB

or make from different pieces of junk one complete https://www.ebay.com/itm/267164669300?_ ... R6qwhr3hZQ



or
https://www.classicindustries.com/produ ... /3250.html

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Dutch Dart GT 64
 Post subject: Re: Starter
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2025 7:58 am 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:20 am
Posts: 60
Location: Netherlands
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Quote:
You're in for a surprise when you install that starter and turn the key. That is a remanufacturer's cobble-up of a '74-and-later large-frame starter. The field coils, the armature, and the motor housing are all about 1.5cm longer than the small-frame starter. This kind of starter runs much faster than your car's original starter, has 2:1 gearing instead of 3.5:1, and doesn't sound anything alike.

The large-frame starter did not replace the small-frame one; both were manufactured and factory-installed from '74 to the end of that kind of starter in 1987. The large-frame starter was first installed on the biggest V8s Chrysler made in '74. Starting in '75, the large and small starters were used on various engines, from the 225 Slant-6 on up through the 440, seemingly at random. Some years, a certain kind of engine would get the small-frame starter. Other years, that same engine would get the large-frame starter. No consistency to it; my best guess it was a symptom of the administrative mess that was Chrysler in the '70s.

"Cobble-up" because what we see here is the small-frame motor housing with a ~1.5cm spacer ring between the end of the housing and the rear bearing plate, to throw together a large-frame starter out of a mix of small- and big-frame starter parts.
well I returned it, back to square 1

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SlantSixDan
 Post subject: Re: Starter
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2025 1:57 pm 
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Quote:
you've got to be kidding me...
No joke.
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it sounds more or less the French way of putting a car together.
More or less, but Chrysler did it because they were broke and badly mismanaged. The French did it because they're French.
Quote:
the problem with the starter is the coil inside is broken
That's one problem with it — very good odds the rest of its parts are worn or degraded, too. It's old.
Quote:
any advice
Yes: pick one of the № 3250 starters in the eBay link I posted in this thread before.
Quote:
https://www.сІаѕѕісіnduѕtrіеѕ.com
Flat, hard, loud no. They're a garbage company, selling garbage parts at OMGWTF prices.

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Dutch Dart GT 64
 Post subject: Re: Starter
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2025 2:37 am 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:20 am
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Location: Netherlands
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Quote:
Quote:
any advice
Yes: pick one of the № 3250 starters in the eBay link I posted in this thread before.
this is a reconditioned starter motor from Remy. It is not a new part.

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Dutch Dart GT 64
 Post subject: Re: Starter
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2025 3:40 am 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:20 am
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Location: Netherlands
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Dan; would this be okay: https://www.moparmall.com/starting-moto ... -130_e.htm
$ 221 including shipment

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eric22t
 Post subject: Re: Starter
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2025 3:51 am 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2025 3:29 pm
Posts: 37
Location: new hampshire
Car Model: 78 aspen
dutch, the replacement you have will work at as a for now, and allow you to get your original rebuilt at a local rebuilder of starters and alternators.
it will still sound like a mopar starter, just not exaclty the same because of the different gear reduction rate.
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Dutch Dart GT 64
 Post subject: Re: Starter
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2025 6:17 am 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:20 am
Posts: 60
Location: Netherlands
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Quote:
dutch, the replacement you have will work at as a for now, and allow you to get your original rebuilt at a local rebuilder of starters and alternators.
it will still sound like a mopar starter, just not exaclty the same because of the different gear reduction rate.
If I buy the new one, I have to give the old one in return to be rebuild. there are only companies replacing, hardly or none that is rebuilding.

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MDchanic
 Post subject: Re: Starter
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2025 7:29 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:12 am
Posts: 202
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Car Model: 1964 Dart 270 4-Door
Quote:
If I buy the new one, I have to give the old one in return to be rebuild. there are only companies replacing, hardly or none that is rebuilding.
You are exceptionally unlikely to be able to find a new starter for a 60 year old car.

The price of the rebuilt starter from MoParMall is $81.70 USD plus a $50 USD core charge, returnable if you send them a rebuildable core.
That's €116 as of today (God the dollar has dropped in the past two months!), plus some insane amount for shipping to the Netherlands.

The prices of the starters Dan pointed to on eBay are similar. All of these are very reasonable prices for a rebuilt starter that is in fairly low demand.

Since the only starters available (barring unusual discoveries), are rebuilt, all will come with a core charge.
Since you believe your current starter is original and want to keep it, to possibly be rebuilt later, you will have no choice but to pay the core charge one way or another. The alternative would be to return your old starter to the US from the Netherlands, the cost of which would probably exceed the core charge.

So just buy a good rebuilt starter (I'd follow Dan's advice, as he has a surprising amount of detailed knowledge on the subject) and "eat" the core charge. We all have to sometimes.

The good part is that you get to keep your old unit.

– Eric
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Dutch Dart GT 64
 Post subject: Re: Starter
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2025 8:00 am 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:20 am
Posts: 60
Location: Netherlands
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thanks, I don't mind handing in my old starter, I just it working the same and not that the car suddenly starts as a new one... that's all.
The only issue I have is not wanting to buy a 300 dollar one from ebay and coming to the conclution that it is a powerfull new one, like the one i appearantly bought now here in the NLs.

or I just have to accept the car will loose some of it's charme... I don't want new, I want it to start like it should be... it should caugh a bit like a lifelong smoker gets out of bed

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MDchanic
 Post subject: Re: Starter
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2025 8:14 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:12 am
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Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Car Model: 1964 Dart 270 4-Door
You know, really, since you are pretty much stuck with shipping from the US regardless of what you do, I would recommend placing a Wanted ad here and in ForABodiesOnly. Someone will have a good working original starter to sell you, and in case of future problems, you will still have your original for spare parts.

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SlantSixDan
 Post subject: Re: Starter
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2025 8:57 am 
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Quote:
thanks, I don't mind handing in my old starter
Ooh, no, hang onto your original starter. Even if you don't get it rebuilt now, you might want to get it rebuilt later.
Quote:
The only issue I have is not wanting to buy a 300 dollar one from ebay and coming to the conclution that it is a powerfull new one, like the one i appearantly bought now here in the NLs.
Well, you could enlist help of a North American to obtain a starter, verify it's the small-frame type, and send it over to you.

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