Hello,

If a starter relay is going bad / beginning to fail it can not pass the correct amount on voltage or current to run the starting motor.


I believe I am having a different issue whereas I release the key and the engine is running but the starter will not shut off / disengage. Can this condition also be caused by a faulty relay? I would think so but just want some 2nd opinions.

My relay in question is almost 60 years old so it seems plausible.

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Could be the relay.

Could also be the starter solenoid or the ignition switch.

Not hard to tell which by systematic testing, but could be very hard if the problem is intermittent.

In my experience, the most likely culprit would be the starter solenoid, as its contact disk and contacts can get a bit "sticky" after a few million starts, and tend to weld themselves together on occasion, even if only for a second or two.

You could eliminate the relay by temporarily replacing it with a Chinesium 40A foglight relay for a week or two and see whether the problem goes away.

I've never taken a MoPar starter solenoid apart (old GM guy, sorry), but typically, with a bit of disassembly, you can get to the contacts, usually a disk about an inch or an inch and a quarter in diameter, and the heel ends of the two lugs the heavy wires are connected to, and either clean them up with a file, or remove and flip the disk over, exposing its "fresh" side for the next 60 years.

- Eric

X2

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225

I did some testing and the relay and switch firing the relay are all good and shut off correctly.

The issue seems to be the starter solenoid itself.

Thanks Guys.

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Got it all sorted now.

The Solenoid was bad - I took some time yesterday in the garage and fortunately can swap a full size Chrysler starter on and off the Hyperpack / Clifford Long tube equipped beast quite easily!

Even though I replaced the Starter (likely the original one to my '69 Dart) They have different part #'s and they share the distinct Chrysler gear reduction sound, they sound quite differnet.


Thanks all!


Greg

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There are 2:1 and 3:1 gear reduction versions of the OE Mopar starters (60's - 80's?). They will sound a little different from each other. Earlier starters were the 3:1 variety but Mopar went to a 2:1 style when they introduced electronic ignition in the early to mid 70's. The idea was to spin the engine over faster to get a more distinct trigger signal from the electronic distributor. I always tried to use a 2:1 as all my engines were, or became, electronic ignition equipped. If you remove the cover near the bendix, you will see a difference in the gear size between the two with the 2:1 having a smaller bendix gear when compared to a 3:1 starter. I have some pics (somewhere) showing the two types side by side. It is impossible to tell which type of starter you will get as a reman these days without looking at it after you get it.
I believe all the newer 'mini' starters are 2:1 but I haven't really heard much about them.
Anyway, you will hear a difference between the sound of a 2:1 vs a 3:1 starter.

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-MattMan
LEANED & MEAN

3.5:1 with 1.3hp, 1.4hp, and 1.5hp motors from '62-'87
2:1 with 1.8hp motor from '74-'87
A lot different.
Chrysler put the larger 1.8hp/2:1 geared starter first on the biggest V8s in 1974, then applied them (and the 1.5hp/3.5:1 geared starters) more or less randomly from then until they started using the Nippondenso starter in 1988. There was no pattern to it; some years some 225s got the big starter and some years they got the small starter. Same with 318s, etc.
Don't believe so. There was never a problem getting a perfectly adequate trigger signal from the electronic distributor even with the slowest-cranking (1.3hp/3.5-geared) starter. The higher-speed starters were quicker to clear out a flooded engine, and could throw more muscle into cranking a cold engine with the crummy, gummy oils of that time.
№ 3257 is the small 1.5hp/3.5:1-geared starter.
№ 3258 is the large 1.8hp/2:1-geared starter.

Most of the parts do not interchange, and they are not consolidated at the reman-parts level.
Bout 4.4:1 on the Nippondenso/Denso starters, IIRC. Donno what the ratio is on the Mitsu coaxial starter described here and here (Remy № 16054).

Wanna read more about Chrysler gear-reduction starters, see here, here, here, and here.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Thanks for clearing that up Dan. It's always good to know the correct details.
Youda Man.

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-MattMan
LEANED & MEAN

Thank you Dan I will look into all of the info when I have a moment


Replacing my solenoid on the original starter..
Is this part supposed to slide seamlessly in the electromagnet housing?
20250314_214840 by Hyperpack, on Flickr

It slides but hangs up a bit?
I was wondering if it should get cleaned up a bit by sanding on the lathe or bead blasting?

Does any lube belong in there? It was dry on disassembly.

Thanks Starter Sages!

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Hi Greg. As I said earlier, I am not a Chrysler starter expert, but that looks to me like a later starter and not an original-style one.

That being said, I would expect that iron core to be pulled in by the solenoid coil, the reverse-cone end to fit into the fork of the lever that levers out the starter drive gear, and the other (not visible) end of the iron core to be connected to a round contact disk that makes the connection between the batter and the starter motor.

The above being true, the iron core should move easily, and does not require any lubrication (which would dry up, get sticky, and interfere with operation).
If it has any rough or tight spots, I would think that you could clean it up with a piece of coarse sandpaper.
It doesn't spin, isn't balanced, and its dimensions aren't super-critical, so long as it's small enough to move freely but not so small as to be able to cock and bind.

The bottom line is that the plunger should be able to move freely under the amount of force that the return spring supplies.

Again, not an expert in this exact model, but I hope this is helpful.

– Eric

That's a '70-up starter you're working on.
It should not hang up, but neither should it be even a slightly loose fit. The intended size of the movable core is crucial to correct operation of the solenoid. If there's roughness on the core, use a strip of crocus cloth to smooth it (and the bore, as needed), but don't turn it down in a lathe more than a couple thou, and don't attack it with coarse-grit sandpaper or a bead blaster.
No lube is specified in this location, and none was used. If you'd like to put a thin film of something like Tri-Flow on it, it won't hurt anything, but no grease or other suchlike.

I suspect the core-hang you're seeing when you move the parts by hand is just due to the very close fit of the core in the winding, and probably isn't happening during actual starter operation—I don't think this is causing your problem. Have a hard look at the return spring, which nests inside the core and might be weak on your starter, allowing it to remain engaged.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Thanks Dan, Upon disassembly I found this unit not to be a 1969 Starter as you said earlier.

It is a 1974 part # 3755900 small frame with four coils in the motor section.




I cleaned and serviced it along with installing a a new Solenoid Mechanism.




I will probably put it back in the Dart sometime in the spring or summer.

Now I can Figure out which starter I have as my stand by unit from your list of Starter Part #'s on FABO.

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Where'd I say that?
To be clear, they all have four coils—just certain of them have three coils in series + a shunt coil, and others (such as yours) have four coils in series.
Lovely. Did you pay attention to the condition of the leather brake washer under the driven gear? If it's oily or worn down or absent, the starter will take forever to spin down.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Oops. It was not Dan who mentioned the likeyhood that this was not a 1969 starter it was Eric.

Thanks.

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